Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Sash]

I'm preparing next weeks lesson and I don't have a teacher's guide yet. The section I'm confused about is the "Passive with 'should'" section. The students are asked to change the questions to the passive form.

Example- Do you think we should permit professional athletes to participate in the Olympic Games? = Should professional athletes be permitted to participate in the Olympic Games?

The only question I have is, how are the two questions different? In other words, is there a purpose to changing one form to the other? Is one more polite or something? I was told to try not to use the passive form because the passive form was usually vague.

I'm not an English major, and I don't want to be frozen saying 'UH..' if they ask.

Thanks!

[kimchi story]

With the passive voice you can elide the subject and make the statement appear, literally, less subjective. This is how news agencies and historians to turn opinion into 'fact'.

In your first example the reader is the main subject - "Do you think..." and in the latter the main subject is removed. The first example is openly soliciting an opinion, and the second appears to be soliciting a fact. I don't know if I would say it is more polite, but it is more formal.

[poet13]

disclaimer....I'm not a grammarian, linguist or have any special training.
that said.

It seems that in the first sentence, by saying "we should", is attributing a proposed action to a set of people, the set of "we".
In the second sentence, there is no "we", just an open question.

Try this.

Should I allow my students to smoke pot?

Should students be allowed to smoke pot?

I think the difference is much more noticeable in that example.

The passive form is more vague, but that doesn't automatically make it a bad thing. It has it's place. I don't know if it's more or less polite but I think in some cases, it can be considered more diplomatic. IMHO, people generally don't want others foisting their beliefs, opinions, and wants on them. Using the passive in debate has the effect of clearing the field of discussion of some unnecessary argument. Aghh, I didn't say that well at all.....here, try this...

For example, to use your sentence, "Do you think we should allow professional athletes....?"
Some responses might be;
Who is "we"?
Who does "we" represent?
Is "we" qualified to make this decision?

This line of questioning in no way addresses the original question. They are valid questions, but they are another line of argument.

I hope that helps a little.




Geez I hope I'm right....

[Pyongshin Sangja]

In the first question, there is an agent- "we"- the person or thing doing the action of allowing.

In the second, there is no agent. Nobody knows who allows or disallows.

I guess it's more vague but are "we" really allowing this? Isn't it actually someone else?

[some waygug-in]

One addition to what's been said above.

In the passive sentence, the subject is optional.

Should professional athletes be allowed (by us) to participate in the Olympic games?

The way this was explained to me is that the passive voice shifts the emphasis of the sentence away from the subject (we) and to the object (professional athletes).

So it is less important who is doing the action than to whom it is done.

I've also heard that passive sentences are more diplomatic.

Compare:

You should not do that!

That should not be done!

In the first case, (you) is being accused of doing something wrong, in the second it is just a wrongful action that is emphasised.

I hope this helps.

[jodemas2]

[faster]

compare the following:

"Mistakes have been made."

"I f*d up."

[poet13]

Absolutely correct. Very nice.

[Sash]

poet13 wrote:

[Sash]

The secret lies not in finding ways to do more, but in how we manage the relationship between the things we have to do and the time available to do them in.

I was wondering if the last 'in' could be omitted from the sentence above. I was also wondering why it is used in the particular sentence?

I'm trying to explain it to a co-teacher.

Thanks again!

[faster]