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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
Umm yes I do have the right to an attorney. No one took that away from me.
Hearing? Ummyes I do.
Umm.. and yes i have freedom to read, i read news papers blogs etc, some of them unfriendly to the admin, and I have yet to have ever had anyone hunt me down for it.
Is something supposed to happen??? will the FBI come to my house if I read the NY times or some other non bush supporting publication?
search and seizure? I have yet to be made aware of any law that says the government can come into my house and search anytime...as far as I know they still have to have probable cause... |
Are you illiterate, thus unable to read, or are you JUST THAT STUPID? Please explain to me where you, personally, are exempted from the Patriot Act? |
Seems to me your the illiterate one:
[edit] Legislative history
Wikinews has news related to:
Bush declares immunity from Patriot Act oversightIntroduced into the House of Representatives as H.R. 3162 by Congressman James F. Sensenbrenner (R, WI), the Act swept through Congress remarkably quickly and with little dissent. House Resolution 3162 was introduced in the House of Representatives on October 23, 2001. Assistant Attorney General Viet D. Dinh and future Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff were the primary drafters of the Act. The bill passed in the House of Representatives on October 24, 2001, and in the Senate (Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) cast the lone dissenting vote, and Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) was the sole non-voting member) on October 25, 2001. President George W. Bush signed the bill into law on October 26, 2001.
[edit] Reauthorization
The original Act had a sunset clause to ensure that Congress would need to take active steps to reauthorize it. Like many sweeping reform laws, the people of the United States needed time to test and implement its measures before deciding what provisions to keep and which to modify. One of the challenges to the original Act had been perceived civil liberties intrusions. The reauthorization resolution passed in 2006 contained the following civil liberties protections ("Safeguards")[1]:
Requiring High-Level Approval and Additional Reporting to Congress for Section 215 Requests for Sensitive Information Such as Library or Medical Records: Without the personal approval of one of these 3 officials (FBI Director, Deputy Director or Official-in-Charge of Intelligence), the 215 order for these sensitive categories of records may not be issued.
Statement of Facts Showing Relevance to a Terrorism or Foreign Spy Investigation Required for Section 215 Requests: The conference report requires that a Section 215 application must include a statement of facts demonstrating that the records sought are "relevant" to an authorized investigation to obtain terrorism or foreign intelligence information. This statement of facts civil liberty safeguard contained in the conference report does NOT exist under current law.
Explicitly Allowing a United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Court Judge to Deny or Modify a Section 215 Request: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report explicitly provides a FISA Court judge the discretion to not only approve or modify a Section 215 application, but also to deny an application.
Requiring Minimization Procedures to Limit Retention and Dissemination of Information Obtained About U.S. Persons From Section 215 Requests: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report requires that the Attorney General create minimization procedures for the retention and dissemination of this data and that the FBI use these procedures. This civil liberty safeguard is not contained in current law and was requested by Senator Leahy.
Explicitly Providing for a Judicial Challenge to a Section 215 Order: Current law requires judicial review before a Section 215 can be issued. The pending USA PATRIOT Act conference report explicitly established a judicial review process after the 215 order has been issued, to allow the recipient of a 215 order to challenge the order before the FISA Court.
Explicitly Clarifying that a Recipient of a Section 215 Order May Disclose Receipt to an Attorney or Others Necessary to Comply with or Challenge the Order: Current law is silent as to whether a 215 order recipient may disclose the receipt of such an order to an attorney to comply with the order. The pending USA PATRIOT Act conference report clarifies this issue by stating explicitly that the recipient of a 215 order may disclose receipt to an attorney or others necessary to comply with or challenge the order.
Requiring Public Reporting of the Number of Section 215 Orders: At the request of Senator Leahy and other Senate Democratic conferees, the USA PATRIOT Act Conference report requires the Justice Department to report to the public annually the aggregate number of Section 215 applications submitted, approved, modified, and denied.
Requiring the Justice Department's Independent Inspector General to Conduct an Audit of Each Justice Department Use of Section 215 Orders: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report provides additional public information and congressional oversight by requiring the Justice Department's independent Inspector General to conduct an audit for each Justice Department use of Section 215 orders.
Explicitly Providing for a Judicial Challenge to a National Security Letter (NSL): Current Law does not specify that an NSL can be challenged in court and provides no process for challenging an NSL. The conference report provides explicit authority to challenge in court an NSL under all existing statutes authorizing NSLs. This civil liberty safeguard is stronger than the Senate-passed bill, which only addressed one of the NSL statutes, does not exist under current law, and was written by Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.).
Explicitly Clarifying that a Recipient of a National Security Letter (NSL) May Disclose Receipt to an Attorney or Others Necessary to Comply with or Challenge the Order: Current law is silent as to whether an NSL may disclose the receipt of such an order to an attorney to comply with or challenge the order. The pending USA PATRIOT Act conference report clarifies this issue by stating explicitly that the recipient of an NSL may disclose receipt to an attorney or others necessary to comply with or challenge the order.
Providing that a Nondisclosure Order Does Not Automatically Attach to a National Security Letter (NSL): Instead, a nondisclosure requirement will attach to an NSL only upon a certification by the government that disclosure could cause one of the harms specified in the conference report, such as endangering a witness or threatening national security.
Providing Explicit Judicial Review of a Nondisclosure Requirement to a National Security Letter (NSL): The NSL recipient may challenge the nondisclosure requirement in the U.S. district court for the district in which the recipient does business or resides.
Requiring Public Reporting of the Number of National Security Letters (NSLs): At the request of Senator Leahy and other Senate Democratic conferees, the USA PATRIOT Act conference report includes � for the first time � public reporting on the aggregate number of NSLs requested for information about U.S. persons.
Requiring the Justice Department�s Independent Inspector General to Conduct Two Audits of the Use of National Security Letters (NSLs): The USA PATRIOT Act conference report provides additional public information and congressional oversight by requiring the Justice Department�s independent Inspector General to conduct two audits on the use of NSLs during the years 2003 - 2006.
Requiring Additional Reporting to Congress by the Justice Department on Use of National Security Letters (NSLs): Specifically, the conference report requires the House and Senate Judiciary Committees to receive all classified reports regarding use of NSLs; currently these committees only receive classified reports under one of the five statutes authorizing NSLs.
Requiring the Justice Department to Re-Certify that Nondisclosure of a National Security Letter (NSL) is Necessary: If an NSL recipient challenges the prohibition on disclosure more than a year after the NSL is issued, the Justice Department must re-certify that nondisclosure is necessary, or else the nondisclosure requirement lapses.
Narrowing the Deference Given to the Justice Department on a National Security Letter (NSL) Nondisclosure Certification: At the request of Senator Leahy, this heightened degree of deference is only provided to certifications made by a few Senate-confirmed officials at the time the nondisclosure petition is filed.
Requiring a Report to Congress on Any Use of Data-Mining Programs by the Justice Department: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report enhances congressional oversight of data-mining programs by requiring the Justice Department to report to Congress on the use or development of any of these programs by the Justice Department.
Requiring Notice Be Given on Delayed-Notice Search Warrants Within 30 Days of the Search: The USA PATRIOT Act reauthorization conference report narrows and clarifies the reasonable amount of time standard by providing a Court the discretion to delay notice for up to 30 days after the search is executed.
Limiting Delayed-Notice Search Warrants Extensions to 90 Days or Less: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report narrows and clarifies the permissible delayed-notice extension period by providing a Court the discretion to extend the delay of notice for up to 90 days.
Requiring an Updated Showing of Necessity in Order to Extend the Delay of Notice of a Search Warrant: To ensure that a Court considering extending a delay of notice has the best and most up-to-date information, the USA PATRIOT Act conference report requires an updated show of necessity by the applicant in order to extend the delay of notice of a search warrant.
Requiring Annual Public Reporting on the Use of Delayed-Notice Search Warrant: Specifically, the annual public report will include the �number of applications for warrants and extensions of warrants authorizing delayed notice, and the number of such warrants and extensions granted or denied during the preceding fiscal year.�
Requiring Additional Specificity from an Applicant Before Roving Surveillance May be Authorized: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report addresses concerns about vagueness in applications for �roving� wiretaps in foreign spying and terrorism investigations by requiring additional specificity in these applications in order for a FISA Court judge to consider authorizing a �roving� wiretap.
Requiring Court Notification Within 10 Days of Conducting Surveillance on a New Facility Using a �Roving� Wiretap: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report addresses concerns the �roving� wiretap authority could be abused by requiring the investigators to inform the FISA Court within 10 days when the �roving� surveillance authority is used to target a new facility.
Requiring Ongoing FISA Court Notification of the Total Number of Places or Facilities Under Surveillance Using a �Roving� Wiretap: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report enhances judicial oversight to address any concerns that the �roving� wiretap authority could be abused. Specifically, the conference report requires the FISA Court to be informed on an ongoing basis of the total number of places or facilities under surveillance using a �roving� wiretap authority.
Requiring Additional Specificity in a FISA Court Judge�s Order Authorizing a �Roving� Wiretap: The USA PATRIOT Act conference report addresses concerns about vagueness about the target in a FISA Court judge�s order authorizing a �roving� wiretap in foreign spying and terrorism investigations by requiring additional specificity.
Providing a Four-Year Sunset on FISA �Roving� Wiretap: Despite no evidence that the FISA �roving� wiretap authority has been abused, the USA PATRIOT Act conference report aggressively attempts to avoid any potential abuse of FISA �roving� wiretaps by providing a four-year sunset of this authority.
The Library of Congress' legislative history website, THOMAS, tracks the 45-day passage of the 300-plus page act, including links to successive versions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
Wow.. search warrants? Updates? longer notices? yea they have done a # on your liberties EFL..sure..right..what ever.
Have you even ver read the patriot act? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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NAVFC,
Do you think the "patriot act" is patriotic???? Arguing with you is like arguing with the Topeka Weekly. Your views are all " flags and platitudes" and you are very much unaware of so much that goes on......please get your head out of the Reader's Digest and out with reality.
Your ignorance here and in other posts is grade school and I wouldn't even call it out except for the fact your a vociferously challenging others.
[and I am talking about two other threads in particular, don't have the time to give you an education about issues there....nor teach those who won't bother teaching themselves.]
DD |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
NAVFC,
Do you think the "patriot act" is patriotic???? Arguing with you is like arguing with the Topeka Weekly. Your views are all " flags and platitudes" and you are very much unaware of so much that goes on......please get your head out of the Reader's Digest and out with reality.
Your ignorance here and in other posts is grade school and I wouldn't even call it out except for the fact your a vociferously challenging others.
[and I am talking about two other threads in particular, don't have the time to give you an education about issues there....nor teach those who won't bother teaching themselves.]
DD |
Bull DD< your threads are ridiculous..you guys take something like the patriot act out of context and then blow it into some giuant orwellian conspiracy.
Case in point EFL alledging that the Patriot act ment cops didnt have to have probabale cause or search warrants, where I just showed that measures within the patriot act itself state otherwise.
Next point? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
Case in point EFL alledging that the Patriot act ment cops didnt have to have probabale cause or search warrants, where I just showed that measures within the patriot act itself state otherwise.
Next point? |
Did I mention cops?
NOTHING you posted - Using the Patriot act itself? Stupid. - restores anything.
Why is there currently a scandal regarding those letters?? Use your head.
Why did the Bush have to CLAIM warrant-less wiretaps had been ended?
And, again, where does it end the President's ability to simply name you an enemy and strip away EVERY right you have?
What a fool to believe that ANYTHING you posted makes you safer or freer. One man has the right to name you and disappear you. That's not ANY form of democracy, that's an emperor. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
Case in point EFL alledging that the Patriot act ment cops didnt have to have probabale cause or search warrants, where I just showed that measures within the patriot act itself state otherwise.
Next point? |
Did I mention cops?
NOTHING you posted - Using the Patriot act itself? Stupid. - restores anything.
Why is there currently a scandal regarding those letters?? Use your head.
Why did the Bush have to CLAIM warrant-less wiretaps had been ended?
And, again, where does it end the President's ability to simply name you an enemy and strip away EVERY right you have?
What a fool to believe that ANYTHING you posted makes you safer or freer. One man has the right to name you and disappear you. That's not ANY form of democracy, that's an emperor. |
WTF? K EFL welcome to rality... this isnt the "GOd father" movies..
(thats how your talking).
No they can not ust name me an aenemy.. provisions within the patriot act as I just linked to state otherwise that first probabale cause and such must be given etc etc...
Lets put it this way EFL.. Have you heard of a single case yet, of an avg US Citizien who truly wasnt involved in terror who just ne day found himself declared a terrorist by the government, and disappeared? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Navfc,
I don't even know why I am taking the time. I'll start with letting you get educated from info that ive been privy to the last 4 years. You seem like you're only just drinking red/white and blue cool aid through these years. Reach out into the world, I state that again. This below, from educated people and not posers...
Civil liberties are daily trampled upon and the American people are like that old quote of Toussaint l'Ouverture [oh yeah, look him up ....open up and reach out into the world]. "Those who are slaves are not those who only appear as slaves but much worse, those who are slaves but don't even know it and even defend their slavery as freedom...This is the worst form of enslavement."
| Quote: |
Learn more about the flawed provisions in this legislation using the resources below. Find out how you can get involved, and help urge Congress to bring the Patriot Act in line with the Constitution.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/resources/17343res20031114.html
SUMMARIES AND ANALYSIS
> Summary of the USA PATRIOT Act and Other Government Acts
> Text of the USA PATRIOT Act
> ACLU Fact Sheet on Surveillance under the USA PATRIOT Act
> ACLU Fact Sheet on Section 215: How the Patriot Act Threatens Your Personal Records
> ACLU Fact Sheet on "PATRIOT II"
> How "PATRIOT Act II," The Domestic Security Enhancement Act, Would Further Erode the Basic Checks on Government Power
> Section-by-Section Analysis of "PATRIOT II"
> Additional Analyses of How PATRIOT Powers Threaten Liberty and Privacy
AUDIO ARCHIVE
Executive Director Anthony Romero debunks PATRIOT Act untruths and misconceptions
FEATURES
> ACLU Challenge to "National Security Letter" Authority
> ACLU Files First-Ever Challenge to USA PATRIOT Act, > Citing Radical Expansion of FBI Powers
> FISA - The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
> ACLU sues for records about PATRIOT Act surveillance
CONSERVATIVE VOICES
> Conservative Voices Against the USA PATRIOT Act
> Conservative Voices Against PATRIOT Act II
> Conservative Voices Defending Freedom Post September 11
TAKE ACTION TO KEEP AMERICAN SAFE AND FREE
> Stop "PATRIOT II" Support Oversight of the Secret FISA Court Community Resolutions
> ACLU Action Checklist: meaningful ways of raising public > awareness and shifting policy
PRESS RELEASES
> USA PATRIOT Act
> Domestic Security Enhancement Act ("PATRIOT II")
> ACLU's Freedom of Information Act Request
> Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
PUBLICATIONS
> Freedom Under Fire: Dissent in Post-9/11 America
> Unpatriotic Acts: The FBI's Power to Rifle Through Your Records and Personal Belongings Without Telling You
> Seeking Truth From Justice: PATRIOT Propaganda - The > Justice Department's Campaign to Mislead the Public About the USA PATRIOT Act
> Overview of Post-9/11 Court Cases
> Insatiable Appetite: The Government's Demand for New and Unnecessary Powers After September 11
> Civil Liberties After 9/11: The ACLU Defends Freedom
> Bigger Monster, Weaker Chains: The Growth of an American Surveillance Society
More Safe and Free Reports >>
OTHER LEGISLATIVE ITEMS
ACLU Letters and Testimonies |
Further, I can recount many instances of civil liberties being denied under the new legislation. Your arguement is pure demagogery. The emperor has no clothes yet you still ...........
I just watched the film "Indigenes", Algerian and powerful. I'd recommend it merely for the power by which it might open your eyes to other ways of being/seeing and how power does corrupt. More I'll say about the film on another thread....
DD |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Those who are slaves are not those who only appear as slaves but much worse, those who are slaves but don't even know it and even defend their slavery as freedom...This is the worst form of enslavement."
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wow DD you have found a great quote that describes yourself and the teachings of the prophet muhammed |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
Case in point EFL alledging that the Patriot act ment cops didnt have to have probabale cause or search warrants, where I just showed that measures within the patriot act itself state otherwise.
Next point? |
Did I mention cops?
NOTHING you posted - Using the Patriot act itself? Stupid. - restores anything.
Why is there currently a scandal regarding those letters?? Use your head.
Why did the Bush have to CLAIM warrant-less wiretaps had been ended?
And, again, where does it end the President's ability to simply name you an enemy and strip away EVERY right you have?
What a fool to believe that ANYTHING you posted makes you safer or freer. One man has the right to name you and disappear you. That's not ANY form of democracy, that's an emperor. |
WTF? K EFL welcome to rality... this isnt the "GOd father" movies..
(thats how your talking).
No they can not ust name me an aenemy.. provisions within the patriot act as I just linked to state otherwise that first probabale cause and such must be given etc etc...
Lets put it this way EFL.. Have you heard of a single case yet, of an avg US Citizien who truly wasnt involved in terror who just ne day found himself declared a terrorist by the government, and disappeared? |
You are utterly and completely incorrect. It's a big document. And if you keep writing like an illiterate ten year old, we will be finished. You shall join Joo on the ignore list. It is an exclusive club.
As for me talking like the Godfather: you've not studied much on Central/South American politics, nor listened to much good music, it seems.
As for what I've heard of, dimwit, if I'd heard of Bush using this power it would have gone before the Supre... oh, wait... an American WAS thus branded and denied his rights...
Dumbass.
Further:
Freedom Rings A Sour Note
| Quote: |
| The Justice Department's inspector general revealed on March 9 that the FBI has been systematically abusing one of the most controversial provisions of the USA Patriot Act: the expanded power to issue "national security letters." It no doubt surprised most Americans to learn that between 2003 and 2005 the FBI issued more than 140,000 specific demands under this provision -- demands issued without a showing of probable cause or prior judicial approval -- to obtain potentially sensitive information about U.S. citizens and residents. It did not, however, come as any surprise to me. |
Now shut up. You're stupid, which is boring. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
Case in point EFL alledging that the Patriot act ment cops didnt have to have probabale cause or search warrants, where I just showed that measures within the patriot act itself state otherwise.
Next point? |
Did I mention cops?
NOTHING you posted - Using the Patriot act itself? Stupid. - restores anything.
Why is there currently a scandal regarding those letters?? Use your head.
Why did the Bush have to CLAIM warrant-less wiretaps had been ended?
And, again, where does it end the President's ability to simply name you an enemy and strip away EVERY right you have?
What a fool to believe that ANYTHING you posted makes you safer or freer. One man has the right to name you and disappear you. That's not ANY form of democracy, that's an emperor. |
WTF? K EFL welcome to rality... this isnt the "GOd father" movies..
(thats how your talking).
No they can not ust name me an aenemy.. provisions within the patriot act as I just linked to state otherwise that first probabale cause and such must be given etc etc...
Lets put it this way EFL.. Have you heard of a single case yet, of an avg US Citizien who truly wasnt involved in terror who just ne day found himself declared a terrorist by the government, and disappeared? |
You are utterly and completely incorrect. It's a big document. And if you keep writing like an illiterate ten year old, we will be finished. You shall join Joo on the ignore list. It is an exclusive club.
As for me talking like the Godfather: you've not studied much on Central/South American politics, nor listened to much good music, it seems.
As for what I've heard of, dimwit, if I'd heard of Bush using this power it would have gone before the Supre... oh, wait... an American WAS thus branded and denied his rights...
Dumbass.
Further:
Freedom Rings A Sour Note
| Quote: |
| The Justice Department's inspector general revealed on March 9 that the FBI has been systematically abusing one of the most controversial provisions of the USA Patriot Act: the expanded power to issue "national security letters." It no doubt surprised most Americans to learn that between 2003 and 2005 the FBI issued more than 140,000 specific demands under this provision -- demands issued without a showing of probable cause or prior judicial approval -- to obtain potentially sensitive information about U.S. citizens and residents. It did not, however, come as any surprise to me. |
Now shut up. You're stupid, which is boring. |
Again I say you exaggerate the patriot act.
During WW@ is was much blatant with things such as the sedition act and what not, and with the commy witch hunts of the cold war, yet out nation did nit turn into the tyrannical regime that yiou are trying to play Bush off of, and the civil right restrictions then were far more encompasssing then anything now. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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You can "say" whatever you want, but nothing you have posted prevents the government, specifically the president, from declaring you an enemy combatant. Once named, you have few, ifany, rights.
Those letters? Many thousands of instances of misues already. Gee... I feel safe. |
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