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| Do you believe ? |
| Yes, quite possible |
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63% |
[ 46 ] |
| No, ha ha ha, that's just absurd ... |
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11% |
[ 8 ] |
| I'll believe it when i see it |
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25% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 72 |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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 Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| DirtySanchez wrote: |
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| The Starchild skull DNA was found to contain both an X and a Y chromosome. This is conclusive evidence that the child was not only human (and male), but both of his parents must have been human as well, for each must have contributed one of the human sex chromosomes. |
I don't disagree with this hard scientific evidence, but I have to take into account the limits of today's science. While I don't doubt that today's scientists assume to to be very knowledgable, the same can be said of scientists over 500 years ago. While science evolves every year, and the knowledge base is in a perpetual state of expansion, I find it foolish to come to a conclusion on a possible extra terrestrial skull with no basis for comparison. We have only begun to unlock the secret of the human genome within the last few decades, yet geneticists would assume to know all there is to know about a skull because it contains X and Y chromosomes. Who's to say that aliens wouldn't have X and Y chromosomes? I'm not an expert in genetics, but I would think that if aliens did exist, they would have both male and female sexes. Who's to say that human and alien DNA isn't almost identical, with only slight variations that we cannot detect at this period in scientific history? Given the theory that starchild could infact be a half-breed, wouldn't that similarity be even more striking? The fact is that we don't have a verified alien bone sample as a basis for comparison, so we can't conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that starchild is 100% human. |
Well I havn't entered this thread before because it is so hard to argue with people who believe with little evidence. But really the above post is just hilarious. So MindMeToo since one of your other posts turned me on to Dr. novella's podcast, do you want to play a game of 'Spot that logical fallacy'?.
I'll take the easy one first,Ad ignorantum:argument from ignorance . Modern science doesn't know everything so it is reasonable to assume that this skull is alien/human hybrid as modern science can't give 100% evidence that it isn't a humam/hybrid.
Who wants to go next? I'm pretty sure there is 7 or 8 glaring ones in this piece.
Last edited by JMO on Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
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IGotThisGuitar
Instead of saturation posting different 'evidence' and links. Why don't you pick one. Go through point by point what is in the picture/video. Tell us what you believe it to be. Then outline the other possibilities for the pictures or video and how you discounted those possibilties.
Do you just believe or are you open to the idea that you could be wrong? |
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English_Ocean
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Location: You don't have the right to abuse me!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| While your avatar tends to initially shock & disturb, your writing Ocean is quite entertaining. Keep it up. |
My apologies to the board. 
The thing which bothers me the most is knowing I'll never own one of those
little scooters. I would love to to zoom around doing 1000 mph.  |
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English_Ocean
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Location: You don't have the right to abuse me!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: |
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This video is two hours long. However, if you watch for a few mins you'll see some amazing footage from the Mexican Government.
UFO Jamie Maussan - Mexico 2005
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v2957867Jm4jgXt |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| DirtySanchez wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The Starchild skull DNA was found to contain both an X and a Y chromosome. This is conclusive evidence that the child was not only human (and male), but both of his parents must have been human as well, for each must have contributed one of the human sex chromosomes. |
I don't disagree with this hard scientific evidence, but I have to take into account the limits of today's science. While I don't doubt that today's scientists assume to to be very knowledgable, the same can be said of scientists over 500 years ago. While science evolves every year, and the knowledge base is in a perpetual state of expansion, I find it foolish to come to a conclusion on a possible extra terrestrial skull with no basis for comparison. We have only begun to unlock the secret of the human genome within the last few decades, yet geneticists would assume to know all there is to know about a skull because it contains X and Y chromosomes. Who's to say that aliens wouldn't have X and Y chromosomes? I'm not an expert in genetics, but I would think that if aliens did exist, they would have both male and female sexes. Who's to say that human and alien DNA isn't almost identical, with only slight variations that we cannot detect at this period in scientific history? Given the theory that starchild could infact be a half-breed, wouldn't that similarity be even more striking? The fact is that we don't have a verified alien bone sample as a basis for comparison, so we can't conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that starchild is 100% human. |
Well I havn't entered this thread before because it is so hard to argue with people who believe with little evidence. But really the above post is just hilarious. So MindMeToo since one of your other posts turned me on to Dr. novella's podcast, do you want to play a game of 'Spot that logical fallacy'?.
I'll take the easy one first,Ad ignorantum:argument from ignorance . Modern science doesn't know everything so it is reasonable to assume that this skull is alien/human hybrid as modern science can't give 100% evidence that it isn't a humam/hybrid.
Who wants to go next? I'm pretty sure there is 7 or 8 glaring ones in this piece. |
Our Dr. N. wrote a pretty damning piece about the "starchild" skull. On our evolution thread, Rteacher seems to reintroduce it as evidence of trillion year old human beings or something every 25 pages.
| Quote: |
| I find it foolish to come to a conclusion on a possible extra terrestrial skull with no basis for comparison. |
Multiplying entities needlessly? There is a basis for comparison. Known human deformities. Since it's consistent with known human deformities, there's no need to add a new entity for comparison. Even if there were something inconsistent, it's still problematic. It's like saying you've found a new species of lemur. Sure it could be an earthly lemur but since we've never seen space lemurs, there's no basis of comparison and we can't eliminate the possibility that it's a space lemur. Sure, it could be. But why do we have to add a new entity, space traveling lemurs, when evolution already explains some previously unknown variation?
| Quote: |
| We have only begun to unlock the secret of the human genome within the last few decades, yet geneticists would assume to know all there is to know about a skull because it contains X and Y chromosomes |
Strawman.
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| Who's to say that aliens wouldn't have X and Y chromosomes? |
If we unravel this, then there's the introduction of an unfalsifiable hypothesis. The analysis says "a HUMAN X and Y chromosome". Let's say they found a human x and a dog y. That would be rather amazing and clear evidence that the skull was a hybrid. However, to make this claim have any weight, we have to claim an alien Y chromosome is indistinguishable from a human Y chromosome. Clearly all known non-human Y chromosomes are distinguishable. I might claim my father is a blue fairy. However, don't bother to test my DNA because male blue faries have Y chromosomes that are identical in every way current technology can test.
It's entirely reasonable to conclude I have a human father and it's unreasonable (bordering on absurd) to claim we should withhold provisional assent until we know more about blue fairies or space aliens who visit earth et al.
Last edited by mindmetoo on Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:34 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| English_Ocean wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Bring me an alien body |
Why would they leave a family member, coworker, or friend behind for humans to manipulate? Chances are they have funeral rituals.  |
Fallacy: special pleading?
To claim some creature exists, you need to have a living or dead sample of that creature. One might happily argue unicorns should be kept out of taxonomy until one is brought into a lab. However, space aliens go all Black Hawk Down crazy about their dead and never leave a fallen grey behind? So it is unreasonable to ask for this kind of evidence? If so, that's special pleading.
Last edited by mindmetoo on Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| English_Ocean wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Bring me an alien body |
Why would they leave a family member, coworker, or friend behind for humans to manipulate? Chances are they have funeral rituals. |
Fallacy: special pleading?
To claim some creature exists, you need to have a living or dead sample of that creature. One might happily argue unicorns should be kept out of taxonomy until one is brought into a lab. However, space aliens are Black Hhawk Down crazy about their dead and never leave a fallen grey behind? So it is unreasonable to ask for this kind of evidence? |
Yea I would call that special pleading. There also is an unspoken major premise here: Aliens share our cultural ideas regarding funerals and the dead. Definitly a major leap in my opinion. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:37 am Post subject: |
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I don't watch videos. Got any text-based pages making the contained arguments? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
IGotThisGuitar
Do you just believe or are you open to the idea that you could be wrong? |
JMO:
i am almost ALWAYS open to the possibility of anything, including that the beliefs i've actively seized upon as "true" may indeed be "false"  |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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You do know that there are followers of David Icke on this board.
Can you guess which ones? 
Incredible  |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: |
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Followers, eh?
Where do they "follow" him to?
Bathroom? Corner store? Public library?
He likely gets a little peeved if as you suggest there are so many people "following" him all the time.
I know i certainly would |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Followers, eh?
Where do they "follow" him |
Yeah, they follow him off a cliff into the abyss of insanity. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Followers, eh?
Where do they "follow" him |
Yeah, they follow him off a cliff into the abyss of insanity. |
And so where exactly is this "cliff"? Asia? AmeriKa? Europe?
Is this where one can find Mr. Icke now?
How many have "followed" him to this place?
My, your assertions make it all sound like such an awful thing. Quite frightening 
Likely no place i'd ever want to visit. We all had better be on guard from "following" this mysterious Mr. Icke anywhere for any reason whatsoever. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you seriously that dense? |
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