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| Do you want the coalition forces to succeed in Iraq? |
| Yes, I really hope we win this war |
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73% |
[ 19 ] |
| No, for any reason you have |
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26% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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Message |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| The US has liberty. Even with the Patriot act the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world. |
THAT is an outright falsification. |
Where are you from again, EFLTrainer? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| The US has liberty. Even with the Patriot act the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world. |
THAT is an outright falsification. |
In most nations, efl, individual rights aren't even slightly secure. I'm afriad that your internet life is ruining your perception of the world as it is. The United States, for all legitimately wrong, is still one of the freest nations on earth. And when Bush is gone, it will likely become more free as some of the restrictions are repealed.
In fact, a few weeks ago I posted an aggregation of all the various measures for ranking freedom. The USA wasn't number one, but it was extremely free, none the less.
As Dennis Miller says, being the best nation in the world is like being valedictorian of summer school. It just ain't that hard.
The Latin American NGO Cadal (pdf) just combined economic freedom, political freedom and freedom from corruption in one index, and apparently these are the ten freest countries:
1. Iceland
2. Denmark
3. New Zealand
4. Finland
5. Luxembourg
6. Switzerland
7. Sweden
8. Britain
9. Australia
10. The Netherlands
From: http://www.johannorberg.net/?page=displayblog&month=03&year=2007#2205
http://www.cadal.org/english/pdf/Democracy_Market_and_Transparency_2006.pdf
Canada is 11th, and the USA 16th. The survey is worth a read. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| The US has liberty. Even with the Patriot act the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world. |
THAT is an outright falsification. |
In most nations, efl, individual rights aren't even slightly secure. I'm afriad that your internet life is ruining your perception of the world as it is. The United States, for all legitimately wrong, is still one of the freest nations on earth. And when Bush is gone, it will likely become more free as some of the restrictions are repealed.
In fact, a few weeks ago I posted an aggregation of all the various measures for ranking freedom. The USA wasn't number one, but it was extremely free, none the less.
As Dennis Miller says, being the best nation in the world is like being valedictorian of summer school. It just ain't that hard.
The Latin American NGO Cadal (pdf) just combined economic freedom, political freedom and freedom from corruption in one index, and apparently these are the ten freest countries:
1. Iceland
2. Denmark
3. New Zealand
4. Finland
5. Luxembourg
6. Switzerland
7. Sweden
8. Britain
9. Australia
10. The Netherlands
From: http://www.johannorberg.net/?page=displayblog&month=03&year=2007#2205
http://www.cadal.org/english/pdf/Democracy_Market_and_Transparency_2006.pdf
Canada is 11th, and the USA 16th. The survey is worth a read. |
Thinking 16th is OK for THE world leader. Fucking disgusting.
When I consider freedom, the US has no business anywhere but at the very top. Anything less is hypocrisy and failure.
16th?? Bull. It's not even anywhere near that. This discussion was already had. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Traveled much?
While I agree that the USA should be brave enough to let people be free (drugs, gay marriage, privacy etc etc), I disagree with your hyperbole. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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It's kind of funny.
Most of the folks who oppose US military aggression live and make a living in a country who owes its very existence to US military aggression.
Guys like Octavius are sitting on the bones of fifty-thousand dead Americans, collecting their pay, then spitting in the faces of the men who lost their lives so South Koreans could prosper.
Truman had a 29 percent approval rating during the Korean War.
Korea had to endure Sig Mon Rhee, Park Ji-hung, Chun Doo-Won, No Tae-Woo, etc. before democracy took hold. It was a journey of over 30 years.
However, the point is moot. It doesn't matter who gets elected. The US will be in the Middle East for many years to come. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
It's kind of funny.
Most of the folks who oppose US military aggression live and make a living in a country who owes its very existence to US military aggression.
Guys like Octavius are sitting on the bones of fifty-thousand dead Americans, collecting their pay, then spitting in the faces of the men who lost their lives so South Koreans could prosper. |
So, because America did the right thing militarily in Korea therefore they must be doing the right thing militarily in Iran? As in, because the military (might) be used, and at times in the past it has been used for good, it logically follows that the action will be just?
Get real. In the event of a strike against Iran, Hezballah will blow shit up all over the world. It won't be like Korea or Iraq. This conflict will have severe consequences. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| otis wrote: |
It's kind of funny.
Most of the folks who oppose US military aggression live and make a living in a country who owes its very existence to US military aggression.
Guys like Octavius are sitting on the bones of fifty-thousand dead Americans, collecting their pay, then spitting in the faces of the men who lost their lives so South Koreans could prosper. |
So, because America did the right thing militarily in Korea therefore they must be doing the right thing militarily in Iran? As in, because the military (might) be used, and at times in the past it has been used for good, it logically follows that the action will be just?
Get real. In the event of a strike against Iran, Hezballah will blow *beep* up all over the world. It won't be like Korea or Iraq. This conflict will have severe consequences. |
The Korean War was much more dangerous than the conflict in Iraq.
It almost sparked a nuclear war with China that would have spread through Europe.
Was it worth it? At the time, 71 percent of Americans didn't think so.
It gave us characters like Kim Il-Song and Kim Jong-Il who have blown up jet airliners, killed Park Jung-he's wife, kidnapped innocent Japanese, developed nukes, sold drugs, sold weapons, blackmailed the free world, etc.
It gave us South Korean dictator Park Jung-he whose favorite hobby was throwing dissidents out of helicopters. He was finally assasinated when he announced the South was going nuclear.
Ronald Reagan had to rescue Kim DJ from a watery grave. He was kidnapped by his countrymen from Japan. They had him in a weighted coffin. The poor man was about to take a nice swim in the Sea of Japan. Reagan put a stop to it.
There was the Kwanju Massacre. Nobody knows how many students were gunned down in cold blood.
The Korean War took the lives of fifty thousand Americans, millions of Koreans, and three-hundred-thousand Red Chinese.
You live in a country swimming in blood. Those skyscrapers in Seoul were built on the bones of dead Americans.
Enjoy your paycheck.
Last edited by otis on Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| otis wrote: |
It's kind of funny.
Most of the folks who oppose US military aggression live and make a living in a country who owes its very existence to US military aggression.
Guys like Octavius are sitting on the bones of fifty-thousand dead Americans, collecting their pay, then spitting in the faces of the men who lost their lives so South Koreans could prosper. |
So, because America did the right thing militarily in Korea therefore they must be doing the right thing militarily in Iran? As in, because the military (might) be used, and at times in the past it has been used for good, it logically follows that the action will be just?
Get real. In the event of a strike against Iran, Hezballah will blow *beep* up all over the world. It won't be like Korea or Iraq. This conflict will have severe consequences. |
The Korean War was much more dangerous than the conflict in Iraq.
It almost sparked a nuclear war with China that would have spread through Europe.
Was it worth it? At the time, 71 percent of Americans didn't think so.
It gave us characters like Kim Il-Song and Kim Jong-Il who have blown up jet airliners, killed Park Jung-he's wife, kidnapped innocent Japanese, developed nukes, sold drugs, sold weapons, blackmailed the free world, etc.
It gave us South Korean dictator Park Jung-he whose favorite hobby was throwing dissidents out of helicopters. He was finally assasinated when he announced the South was going nuclear.
Ronald Reagan had to rescue Kim DJ from a watery grave. He was kidnapped by his countrymen from Japan. They had him in a weighted coffin. The poor man was about to take a nice swim in the Sea of Japan. Reagan put a stop to it.
There was the Kwanju Massacre. Nobody knows how many students were gunned down in cold blood.
The Korean War took the lives of fifty thousand Americans, millions of Koreans, and three-hundred-thousand Red Chinese.
You live in a country swimming in blood. Those skyscrapers in Seoul where built on the bones of dead Americans.
Enjoy your paycheck. |
I don't live in Korea, but noted. I can't really tell where you are going with this.
As an isolationist, I'd have left the Koreans to rot and let the Chinese and Soviets have their merry way with them. After having lived in Korea, I can't say my opinion has changed much. I don't see the role of the West as being the super-kind policeman who saves the world from itself at the expense of our lives and money.
We ought to keep to ourselves. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| otis wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| otis wrote: |
It's kind of funny.
Most of the folks who oppose US military aggression live and make a living in a country who owes its very existence to US military aggression.
Guys like Octavius are sitting on the bones of fifty-thousand dead Americans, collecting their pay, then spitting in the faces of the men who lost their lives so South Koreans could prosper. |
So, because America did the right thing militarily in Korea therefore they must be doing the right thing militarily in Iran? As in, because the military (might) be used, and at times in the past it has been used for good, it logically follows that the action will be just?
Get real. In the event of a strike against Iran, Hezballah will blow *beep* up all over the world. It won't be like Korea or Iraq. This conflict will have severe consequences. |
The Korean War was much more dangerous than the conflict in Iraq.
It almost sparked a nuclear war with China that would have spread through Europe.
Was it worth it? At the time, 71 percent of Americans didn't think so.
It gave us characters like Kim Il-Song and Kim Jong-Il who have blown up jet airliners, killed Park Jung-he's wife, kidnapped innocent Japanese, developed nukes, sold drugs, sold weapons, blackmailed the free world, etc.
It gave us South Korean dictator Park Jung-he whose favorite hobby was throwing dissidents out of helicopters. He was finally assasinated when he announced the South was going nuclear.
Ronald Reagan had to rescue Kim DJ from a watery grave. He was kidnapped by his countrymen from Japan. They had him in a weighted coffin. The poor man was about to take a nice swim in the Sea of Japan. Reagan put a stop to it.
There was the Kwanju Massacre. Nobody knows how many students were gunned down in cold blood.
The Korean War took the lives of fifty thousand Americans, millions of Koreans, and three-hundred-thousand Red Chinese.
You live in a country swimming in blood. Those skyscrapers in Seoul where built on the bones of dead Americans.
Enjoy your paycheck. |
I don't live in Korea, but noted. I can't really tell where you are going with this.
As an isolationist, I'd have left the Koreans to rot and let the Chinese and Soviets have their merry way with them. After having lived in Korea, I can't say my opinion has changed much. I don't see the role of the West as being the super-kind policeman who saves the world from itself at the expense of our lives and money.
We ought to keep to ourselves. |
The point is that democracy has a cost--blood. Lots and lots of blood.
But it's a moot point. America isn't going anywhere. The Saudis and Jordanians have already said that they will come into Iraq with troops in order to support the Sunni if America leaves.
So what you will have is basically an Arab-Persian war.
And do you think Turkey will leave the Kurds alone without an American presence?
We are there for the long haul. Anyone who believes any differently is smoking rope. |
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Anyong Bluth
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Location: Robbers' Roost
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Who wants the coalition forces to win in Iraq? |
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| sportsguy35 wrote: |
| Putting aside your hate for W., do you want us to win? |
I would like American service men and women, along with Iraqi civilians, to stop dying violently in Iraq. That's my idea of a win. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| You know nothing of my politics, daskalocos. Cayate la boca before I embarrass you. |
Actually, I am embarrassed for you on a regular basis. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| You know nothing of my politics, daskalocos. Cayate la boca before I embarrass you. |
Actually, I am embarrassed for you on a regular basis. |
Brilliant. If you're going to toss straw men or ad hominems, you'd best be willing to back them up, son. Not sure what it is you're on about as I don't recall any conflicts in the past, but feel free to start one. I enjoy embarrassing fools on these boards. Truly. Otherwise, you really should just shut up because anyone with half a brain dismisses ad hominems as childish. They indicate only that you've nothing to actually say.
Have at it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Otis wrote: |
The Korean War was much more dangerous than the conflict in Iraq.
It almost sparked a nuclear war with China that would have spread through Europe. |
The Korean War raged from 1950-1953. China acquired nuclear weapons on October 16th, 1964.
Plus, I don't think BJWD was comparing the danger of the Korean War to the Iraq conflict. I think he meant to compare the danger of the Korean War with a conflict with Iran. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Cayate la boca before I embarrass you. |
"�C�llate!" is sufficient.
And speaking of "embarrassment..." |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
EFL
| Quote: |
| He/She does make a good point about the US - or at least GWB and Co. - needing a kick in the ass. |
that comment goes good with your comment that you paraphrase would rather have 20 9-11s than the Patriot act. |
Would rather have? Paraphrasing, moron, must keep the original message intact.
Don't lie with my words, little man. |
I am not lying about your words you said something like you would rather have 20 buildings blown up rather than the Patriot act. |
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