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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| I would like to point out that... |
Do two wrongs make a right, Octavius?
Do you support people's using Snow's personal tragedy as a pretext to attack conservatives and religion -- not to mention Snow himself?
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:06 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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double post
Last edited by Octavius Hite on Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes they do. The only people who think they don't are people going around comitting wrongs in the first place. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Good for you. Yet another reason I washed my hands of the left a while back.
Your preaching carries no moral weight with me anymore -- and here I do not confine my remarks to Octavius Hite. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Well ok. I will say this, many times on this board people express their penchant for revenge say when it comes to terrorism and capital punishment. But then when the left says someting like I just said we are immoral. Please explain? If you really believe that tripe about two wrongs then you have to be against capital punishment and the invasion of afghanistan (beyond the limited objectives of capturing bin Laden). Do you have the stones to say that? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Good for you. Yet another reason I washed my hands of the left a while back.
Your preaching carries no moral weight with me anymore -- and here I do not confine my remarks to Octavius Hite. |
I would say that two wrongs MIGHT make a right when the second wrong is directed at the person who did the first wrong.
If on Monday a guy comes up to me on the street and punches me in the face for no reason, and as revenge I go to his house on Tuesday and punch him in the face, it could be argued that the second assault is a justified response to the one the day before.
If, however, I go to the guy's house and punch out his four year old daughter, that's a different story. I don't think I can defend my actions by saying "oh well, what about what he did to me the day before?"
That said, re: the first example, if you accept the morality of revenge, then it follows that the Tuesday assault wasn't a "wrong" at all. And if you don't accept the morality of revenge, then the Tuesday assault was a wrong, even though it was directed against someone who had it coming. But even then, I'd still see a difference between the two cases. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| ...then you have to be against capital punishment and the invasion of afghanistan... |
I am mostly against capital punishment, Octavius. If someone poses a continuing and immiment danger to society, esp. children, for ex., I would execute them, though. I think Plig started a thread well over a year ago where many of us articulated our views on this and several other controversial issues. Check it out if you like.
Taliban-controlled Afghanistan posed a clear and present danger to America. At the very least, it supported a monstrous terrorist act against us and was then stood with bin Laden.
As you know, I never supported the Iraqi War.
But what does all this have to do with people seizing on Snow's personal tragedy as a pretext to attack him, the W. Bush Administration, and conservatives and their religious beliefs...? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| ...two wrongs MIGHT make a right when the second wrong is directed at the person who did the first wrong. |
Great. That takes care of the abstract part (and your neighbor and his four-year-old daughter, too, who, as you say, does not deserve to be punched by anyone).
Comes now Freethought and Mindmetoo, using Snow's cancer to ridicule and attack W. Bush, conservatives, and their religious beliefs. What is your take on this?
Because I believe this does not pertain to neighbors and their daughters but rather a collection of sneering leftists ridiculing and attacking Snow and all that he represents to them because Pat Robertson or someone like him once charged that God had smitten homosexuals with AIDS...
By the way, in American jurisprudence, in any case, two wrongs make a right only when the second wrong must occur to stop the first (e.g., justifiable homocide). Do not see how that applies to Tony Snow in the least, however. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Comes now Freethought and Mindmetoo, using Snow's cancer to ridicule and attack W. Bush, conservatives, and their religious beliefs. What is your take on this?
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I don't consider Freethought to be a serious poster. His opening post was pure trolling.
(And I am not interested in hearing Freethought's arguments as to why I should take him seriously.)
As for Mindmetoo: I can see the general point he was making about contradictions in the religious worldview, and his post wasn't offensive in-and-of-itself. However, he probably could've done better than to hitch his wagon to Freethought's. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| This is a valid point to raise against religion, and an especially valid point to raise against people who are a part of the Bush, neo-con, religi-con movement. |
Was Tony Snow walking around telling everyone that God was going to give all the liars cancer? No? Were the Bushes telling everyone that their prayers would heal Snow? No? Then how are some glaringly obvious problems with Christian theology relevant to this man developing a terminal disease? I mean Jesus Christ, if it was Pat Robertson's church getting destroyed by a hurricane or Ted Haggard turning out to be a pole-smoking tweaker then I'd see your point. Otherwise, you're just using this man's colon cancer to make a shot cheaper than a two-dollar hooker. That's something a douche would do. It shows that you're no better (if not worse) than cheapshot artists like stevemcgarrett, you just happen to be on the left rather than the right.
(I should add that the 'douche' call is not based on this thread only, but represents a judgement made over the course of several threads. I first suspected that you were a douche when you starting telling everyone your IQ; this suspicion was strengthened by your 'Korean men use thimbles for condoms' slur; this thread confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that yes, you are in fact a total douche.) |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I got your six on this one freethought. I'm not sure how it's low class. Are his relatives going to visit Dave's and be offended? No. Clearly Snow has attained power and enjoyed a rather good life from people who believe god works in the manner you describe. It's legitimate to take a step back, examine the bigger picture. Is it low or wrong to ask why people can believe god is helping someone win a lottery while he's letting miners die that same night from a long slow death, despite the prayers of a town full of earnest faithful? If you're going to ride one side of that equation to power, you need to examine the other side when things don't go your way.
I agree with Gang that if it was more clear cut, like Pat Robertson, then people might have less to snipe at. But instead of just calling you low class for asking such a question, it would be better if they provide (like Gang) logic why Snow is not like the Robertson case.
Last edited by mindmetoo on Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| ...the general point...about contradictions in the religious worldview. |
Point taken. Could not agree with you more.
But why was it necessary to pretextually seize on Snow's personal tragedy to make it, however? How are the two stories necessarily linked? |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| I got your six on this one freethought. I'm not sure how it's low class. Are his relatives going to visit Dave's and be offended? No. Clearly Snow has attained power and enjoyed a rather good life from people who believe god works in the manner you describe. It's legitimate to take a step back, examine the bigger picture. Is it low or wrong to ask why people can believe god is helping someone win a lottery while he's letting miners die that same night from a long slow death, despite the prayers of a town full of earnest faithful? If you're going to ride one side of that equation to power, you need to examine the other side when things don't go your way. |
Me, I generally agree with the point itself, and I honestly couldn't care less about Tony Snow as a person - I don't tend to see the problems of strangers as being sacred at all. It's more that bluntly using this particular situation to attack religion and the right is on about the same discursive level as using Stalin's purges to attack atheism and the left - "30 million murdered, that's what no god and socially responsible policies will get you! What do you think about that, eh?" It doesn't change anybody's mind or even get people to think about any of the issues, it exacerbates existing frictions, and it makes the person who said it look like a douche. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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no it doesn't. And, for the record I never want to hear a damn thing about anything I call anyone anymore, after being called a douche repeatedly with everyone seeming to think it's acceptable. FTR, I don't care if I'm called a douche, I just hate the hypocrisy that's rampant on this board.
As for the not able to discuss it without enflaming things, that goes to my point, the fundamental irrationality of religious people, who are unable to even discuss anything when it's completely on topic, without going off the deep end.
Care to further my point even more? |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| no it doesn't. And, for the record I never want to hear a damn thing about anything I call anyone anymore, after being called a douche repeatedly with everyone seeming to think it's acceptable. FTR, I don't care if I'm called a douche, I just hate the hypocrisy that's rampant on this board. |
Don't you get it? You shouldn't use me pointing out that you're a douche to justify calling others names; rather, you should show that you are a better person by refraining from such cheap personal insults.
| freethought wrote: |
| As for the not able to discuss it without enflaming things, that goes to my point, the fundamental irrationality of religious people, who are unable to even discuss anything when it's completely on topic, without going off the deep end. |
You know, I don't think a single religious person has even posted in this thread yet. This isn't about Christian theology, this is about you using a cheap troll to make an attack then acting all wounded when people call you on it. And anyway, what's to 'discuss'? You thought this thread would be all the atheists sitting around agreeing that Christians are hypocrites and that their theology makes no sense? Perhaps some Christians would come in and see the light? Maybe we would end up discussing the theodicy and theology of prayer? O RLY? |
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