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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| flakfizer wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
I am not discounting the hurt. I am offering a point of view to help get beyond the hurt. Some people have expectations that are begging hurt to come their way. One way to avoid hurt is to change your expectations.
Peace |
For example, if you have no expectations at all, you will never be hurt or let down. This is also a great way to raise kids. |
I never expect to have kids. And I am not talking about having no expectations. I am talking about changing your expectations to more realistic ones. Please do not caricature my position. Just take it for what it is, and ignore it if you don't want to adopt it.
Peace |
Like I said, some people couldn't be bothered to cheat. Depends on the person. Expecting a person like that to cheat "because it's human nature" is ignoring the obvious. I've had more than my share of annoyances with people I've dated that expect me to cheat because most of my friends are girls. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Being human -- cheaters aren't. |
I'm taking exception to this idea.
Cheaters are human. They're as human as you get. Humans are selfish creatures with morals that they use or discard as needed. Thus cheaters are perfectly normal. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: re: |
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| twg wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Being human -- cheaters aren't. |
I'm taking exception to this idea.
Cheaters are human. They're as human as you get. Humans are selfish creatures with morals that they use or discard as needed. Thus cheaters are perfectly normal. |
This is off topic, but I love your avatar. Where did you get that, and can you explain the background of it (if there is one)?
Peace |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| flakfizer wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
I am not discounting the hurt. I am offering a point of view to help get beyond the hurt. Some people have expectations that are begging hurt to come their way. One way to avoid hurt is to change your expectations.
Peace |
For example, if you have no expectations at all, you will never be hurt or let down. This is also a great way to raise kids. |
I never expect to have kids. And I am not talking about having no expectations. I am talking about changing your expectations to more realistic ones. Please do not caricature my position. Just take it for what it is, and ignore it if you don't want to adopt it.
Peace |
I didn't "caricature" your position. Can one do a caricature of a caricature? I actually softened your position. I used the phrase "no expectations" when in fact "negative expectations" is more accurate. This is an old trick: Lower your standards and everything looks better. Expect D's and C's look pretty good. It's also a common self-delusion. If I expect others to act immorally, (pssst, inwardly hoping they do), then I can more easily feel justified amout my own immorality. |
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chamisul
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
I think everyone should go into a relationship (if they expect it to be long-term) with the the expectation that their partner will cheat. Not only should they have that expectation, but they should inform their partner of that expectation, and make an occassional sexual laison permissable. Sex does not = love, and the sooner couples learn that, the longer more couples will stay together. The same body gets old after a while, but true love really never withers away.
Peace |
Why, exactly, do you even pretend to be religious? |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| flakfizer wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| flakfizer wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
I am not discounting the hurt. I am offering a point of view to help get beyond the hurt. Some people have expectations that are begging hurt to come their way. One way to avoid hurt is to change your expectations.
Peace |
For example, if you have no expectations at all, you will never be hurt or let down. This is also a great way to raise kids. |
I never expect to have kids. And I am not talking about having no expectations. I am talking about changing your expectations to more realistic ones. Please do not caricature my position. Just take it for what it is, and ignore it if you don't want to adopt it.
Peace |
I didn't "caricature" your position. Can one do a caricature of a caricature? I actually softened your position. I used the phrase "no expectations" when in fact "negative expectations" is more accurate. This is an old trick: Lower your standards and everything looks better. Expect D's and C's look pretty good. It's also a common self-delusion. If I expect others to act immorally, (pssst, inwardly hoping they do), then I can more easily feel justified amout my own immorality. |
You're assuming my position is immoral based on some subjective morality of your own (or humanity's at large - it really doesn't matter). I am not lowering my expectations. Perhaps I am making them more high. Who's to say I am going either direction in my expectations when morality and expectations are subjective by nature?
Peace |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| chamisul wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
I think everyone should go into a relationship (if they expect it to be long-term) with the the expectation that their partner will cheat. Not only should they have that expectation, but they should inform their partner of that expectation, and make an occassional sexual laison permissable. Sex does not = love, and the sooner couples learn that, the longer more couples will stay together. The same body gets old after a while, but true love really never withers away.
Peace |
Why, exactly, do you even pretend to be religious? |
I consider myself spiritual rather than religious.
Peace |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
You're assuming my position is immoral based on some subjective morality of your own (or humanity's at large - it really doesn't matter). I am not lowering my expectations. Perhaps I am making them more high. Who's to say I am going either direction in my expectations when morality and expectations are subjective by nature?
Peace |
Well, I see why chose to say "more high" rather than "higher."
So morality is all subjective. Then the key is just do whatever you want and convince yourself that it's moral. Surround yourself with people who will tell whatever your itching ears want to hear. Well, isn't that conveeeeenient.
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tareze
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: north or south of a river
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think there are a lot of good arguments for non-monogamy. We, as citizens of a monogamous culture, are usually taught that monogamy is "natural" and that all other forms of sexual relations are wrong. The reality is that monogamy is not the norm in our society. Lemme find some basic stats....ok here...
"Conservative estimates are that 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women who consider themselves monogamous will have an extramarital affair. These figures are even more significant when we consider the total number of marriages involved, since it's unlikely that all the men and women having affairs happen to be married to each other. If even half of the women having affairs (or 20 percent) are married to men not included in the 60 percent having affairs, then at least one partner will have an affair in approximately 80 percent of all marriages. With this many marriages affected, it's unreasonable to think affairs are due only to the failures and shortcomings of individual husbands or wives."
Of course, that being said...I know quite a few people who make a go at practicing ethical non-monogamy (that means they make sure EVERYONE knows the jig before dancing) and from what I can tell, it's just trading one set of problems for another. Most stop even bothering to have relationships outside of their primary partners after a while. I think that maybe there is something about having the freedom to choose that course, more than actually pursuing it that is ultimately fulfilling.
Tho I myself would have some serious jealousy issues to work through with a rather patient, communicative partner and i don't really know how successful I would be; i can see the value in giving non-monogamy a shot. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| If you want someone to be faithful i think you have to establish a firm friendship first... |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is off topic, but I love your avatar. Where did you get that, and can you explain the background of it (if there is one)?
Peace |
This image that the avatar was cropped from, was part of an artistic challenge to re-interpret Wally Wood's 22 Panels That Always Work. (Wally Wood being a famous comic artist from way back in the 50s and 60s.)
I approached it as a picture-making project, and the one that was the avatar for a short while was one of the images that came out well enough. |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Hugh Hefner has the right idea with his mini harem. Supposedly they are monogamous within that group, but at least he gets some variety. |
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Cerebroden
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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pretty sure the male preying mantis is pretty monagamus as well...
honestly...I look at as a challenge. I have no intentions of ever cheating on my wife. Could I do it if I wanted to? Umm, easily and with zero effort. But I fawqd my way through college so its not like I didn't get my fair share. Now the game is to see if I can really go 50 years and be faithful to my wife. people get married because they believe that the true love of one good woman or man outweighs the benefits of lots of lovin from lots of people. Why waste it? |
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