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mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Another sound decision by Chavez:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/25/america/LA-GEN-Venezuela-Chavez.php
"President Hugo Chavez announced Sunday that his government's sweeping reforms toward socialism will include the creation of "collective property."
Vowing to undermine capitalism's continued influence in Venezuela during his television and radio program "Hello President," Chavez said state-financed cooperatives would operate under a new concept in which workers would share profits.
"It's property that belongs to everyone and it's going to benefit everyone," said Chavez, a close ally of Cuban leader Fidel Castro whom opponents accuse of leading Venezuela toward Cuba-style communism.
Chavez � a leftist former paratrooper popularly known as "El Comandante" � said his government fully respects private property, but pledged to replace capitalist ideals with socialist principles on cooperatives such as cattle ranches and farms." |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| We are talking about a different time period, a different country, and a leader who is firmly in touch with his military... |
Not unlike Colonel Jacobo Arbenz, military hero of the Guatemalan Revolution...
Do not overestimate Chavez's military past. Rather, he probably already did something similar, although less extreme, as Castro did with the Cuban military when he seized power.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I don't see a strong comparison between Allende and Chavez. |
For one thing, have you looked at their UN speeches and compared them (tone, message)? What about their domestic agendas -- including Allende's emotional promises "to overthrow the arrogance of 'money.'"
Given these and other similarities how can you deny this comparison, then?
Chavez is certainly his own man and unique -- like all of us. But it also helps to see how he is similar to other far-left Latin American politicians like Castro and Allende. After all, what did Castro inscribe on the AK he presented Allende in Nov.-Dec. 1972...? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| We are talking about a different time period, a different country, and a leader who is firmly in touch with his military... |
Not unlike Colonel Jacobo Arbenz, military hero of the Guatemalan Revolution...
Do not overestimate Chavez's military past. Rather, he probably already did something similar, although less extreme, as Castro did with the Cuban military when he seized power.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I don't see a strong comparison between Allende and Chavez. |
For one thing, have you looked at their UN speeches and compared them (tone, message)? What about their domestic agendas -- including Allende's emotional promises "to overthrow the arrogance of 'money.'"
Given these and other similarities how can you deny this comparison, then?
Chavez is certainly his own man and unique -- like all of us. But it also helps to see how he is similar to other far-left Latin American politicians like Castro and Allende. After all, what did Castro inscribe on the AK he presented Allende in Nov.-Dec. 1972...? |
My point is not every right wing leader is the same anymore than any far left one is the same. I mean Mussolini and Hitler were very different.
I see Chavez similar to Castro and Nasser.
I am somewhat on the Left. The Catholic church is against the Marxist system, and it is against what the U.S. has. One system is for greed, one in the name of helping the poor destroys their spirit and economy.
I think both are dangerous. I prefer what is present in Europe, in general. I think greed is dangerous as Chavez and others say, but they are also into greed -the greed for power, making all the same.
I was just reading today how they believe certain things put in the cows is reducing the sperm count in American males. This is not happening in Europe where this was band. I do believe in Canada and America, capitalist forces control things in a matrix like manner subverting the common good and Castro and them are the opposite, trying to bend everyone in the name of uplifting the masses. A mixture of both socialist principles and capitalist principles to restrain the mob and also those who want to monopolize power whether they be bourgeois or those claiming to speak for the power. That is part of the reason why these power struggles occur. Both sides can't feel left out. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| ...in Canada and America, capitalist forces control things in a matrix like manner subverting the common good and Castro and them are the opposite, trying to bend everyone in the name of uplifting the masses. |
Wholly disagree with you here and elsewhere (your Catholic Church's position on Marxism, for one -- you speak of the Vatican but not of ground conditions in Latin America and the Caribbean, and here I refer to Liberation Theology. Still alive and well in some parts, esp. I believe, Chiapas, although my information there is about seven or eight years old.).
I find your implicitly equating Castro with The Matrix's "Neo" absurd and indeed delusional.
Will take my leave of this thread now. |
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giovanni
Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Location: NO
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Wait for big bird, Im sure that she feels like a moron now. |
Why? My position on Chavez is that the people of Venezuala can do what they bloody well like, and other countries (like the US) should keep their nose out of their affairs. If he's a wanker, that's the business of his countrymen - not mine - not yours.
And I especially love the way Chavez annoys people like you - it's such fun to watch. |
lololol your posts reek of a bitchin' post-colonial hangover |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| ...in Canada and America, capitalist forces control things in a matrix like manner subverting the common good and Castro and them are the opposite, trying to bend everyone in the name of uplifting the masses. |
Wholly disagree with you here and elsewhere (your Catholic Church's position on Marxism, for one -- you speak of the Vatican but not of ground conditions in Latin America and the Caribbean, and here I refer to Liberation Theology. Still alive and well in some parts, esp. I believe, Chiapas, although my information there is about seven or eight years old.).
I find your implicitly equating Castro with The Matrix's "Neo" absurd and indeed delusional.
You may thinks so but the gatekeepers of information whether they call themselves Marxists or neo-liberal capitalists have the power to tell people what they want them to hear. It may sound like a conspiracy, but that is the way it always is through out time, but it is in different variations.
Will take my leave of this thread now. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| ...the gatekeepers of information. |
University committees, editorial boards, discussion panels, university presses and anonymous reviewers...are putting things out from John Lewis Gaddis or Samuel Huntington, on the one hand, to Noam Chomsky and others like William Blum on the other -- and many others who tread between these extremes.
I just do not see people controlling information in the American press as you suggest. Battles are raging. No consensus on pretty much anything, either.
No conspiracy, Adventurer. |
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