Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - Storm in US over chocolate Jesus

Speak Korean Now!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Storm in US over chocolate Jesus
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

hairy sue

Joined: 18 May 2006
Location: weewee heaven

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Storm in US over chocolate Jesus

BJWD wrote:

Below is a picture from the protest.

That photo is fake.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:28 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

Well, we are about a week into this now, and nare a murder reported. So, will somebody please explain to me why:

Does not cause this:

Well, open a gay bar in some Christian religious communities and see how long before a pipe bomb shows up in their mail.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:28 am Post subject:

Yes, it is. But this one isn't, And that is bloody scary.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:30 am Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

BJWD wrote:

Well, we are about a week into this now, and nare a murder reported. So, will somebody please explain to me why:

Does not cause this:

Well, open a gay bar in some Christian religious communities and see how long before a pipe bomb shows up in their mail.

That is quite off topic. But true. Huff and I did this dance on page 2. It seems religious people hate gays.

FYI, the lunacy of the one does not excuse the lunacy of the other. In addition, the fact that the complexion of one group matches my own doesn't negate my inherent right to criticize the other.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:55 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

So, you suggest no link between islam and violence?

There may very well be a correlation. Just as there's a correlation between race and crime. Just as there's a correlation between gender and crime. Are all blacks and all men a threat to western society?

Quote:

The koran very clearly calls muslims to violence.

So does the Bible. But I don't assume every Christian is a violence prone literal interpreter the Bible. Just as I don't assume every Muslim is a violence prone literal interpreter of the Koran. The % of hard-core fundamentalists may be higher in Islam, but they've traditionally lived in insular hard-cord Muslim states. Does that excuse their behavior? Of course not. But it means we should look at root causes other than Islam itself.

Quote:

For proof of a media cover up, you can look at the Utah shooter. Very clearly, it was an act of jihad. The media asserts it was not. They even go so far as to deny what he was shouting, even though it was clear in the videos.

Even if you attribute it to "jihad," the % of of Muslim-Americans who have taken to violence in the name of Allah is infinitesimally small. Hardly enough to indict an entire religion.

Question: Was the US right to imprison Japanese and Germans during WWII?

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:01 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

And that is bloody scary.

You get scared easily? Ever hear of hubris? What about these? You must be *beep*ing your pants.

All non-Muslim, AFAIK.

hairy sue

Joined: 18 May 2006
Location: weewee heaven

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:03 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

That picture isn't real either.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:06 am Post subject:

huffdaddy wrote:

BJWD wrote:

And that is bloody scary.

You get scared easily? Ever hear of hubris? What about these? You must be *beep*ing your pants.

All non-Muslim, AFAIK.

Hyperbole, huff, hyperbole. I'm no more scared of muslims than I am of wild dogs.

My motivation, again, is in the leftists (sorry, but it is them) who refuse to call a spade a spade.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:11 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

My motivation, again, is in the leftists (sorry, but it is them) who refuse to call a spade a spade.

Ahh, so we get your true motivations. So like I said before, you're just trolling. You just aren't as annoying as stevie0. I think I'll go back to my soccer game now.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:21 am Post subject:

huffdaddy wrote:

BJWD wrote:

So, you suggest no link between islam and violence?

Quote:

The koran very clearly calls muslims to violence.

Quote:

Even if you attribute it to "jihad," the % of of Muslim-Americans who have taken to violence in the name of Allah is infinitesimally small. Hardly enough to indict an entire religion.
3)
Question: Was the US right to imprison Japanese and Germans during WWII?

1) So, we are back to class etc. Anything but their religion. All of these conflicts, and you refuse to make even the most simple comparison of what they all have in common. You have all these peoples from different nations, classes, culture and all the rest. They all have in common islam. What Thailand, Philippines, France, and the smaller issues of shira in Canada/America etc etc have is separation. They are all at bottom separatist movements. The graffiti near mosques in Singapore reads "this is not yours to govern". Over and over again. These are very loud points of contact.

Also, this is hardly new. islam has been expanding violently since it was born. The early history of islam (while mo' was still alive) is extremely telling when applied to our future.

2) muslims today are much more religious than we would like to admit. mo' wanted his flock to be ultra religious, and in fact considered demanding they pray 40 times a day (some say he actually wanted 100 times a day with only breaks for meals, pooping, sleeping etc). Even a moderate muslim isn't really expected to take part in un-islamic activities. Fanaticism is a very, very real problem in islam and has been from Day 1.

3) Huff, you know what is enough to "indict" an entire religion? The commands the religion actually makes? By any reasonable measure of liberty or civility, the islamic faith is by design barbaric. Add that to the historical aggression of muslims and I think we have enough. Individual muslims are not the issue, but let us not pretend the larger construction of islam, (whose author was a pedophile) is a-OK.

About the Japanese and Germans, no. I'm a libertarian first and foremost. Get ready for round two in Europe, though.

I don't want internment, but for islam to be dragged through the mud as all other IDEAS (as that is all it is) have. I would like for people to be able to criticize islam without the sponge-like absorbers of PC propaganda immediately yelling "WHAT ABOUT THE CHRISTIANS" as if something can never be examined in and of itself (unless it is a dominant white-person 'thing', of course)

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:24 am Post subject:

huffdaddy wrote:

BJWD wrote:

My motivation, again, is in the leftists (sorry, but it is them) who refuse to call a spade a spade.

Ahh, so we get your true motivations. So like I said before, you're just trolling. You just aren't as annoying as stevie0. I think I'll go back to my soccer game now.

I'm trolling? No. I even posted a page back an article on the academic origins of this type of thinking. I'm sorry, but it is "the left" that is up to this. It may not be all leftists, but I'd wager a solid 90% of people who call themselves left are totally immersed in this type of PC thinking. The "right" has her own PCism which is more nationalistic (my country right or wrong). Nothing trolling about this at all.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:48 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

I'm trolling?

Yes. You're motivation is to confront "leftists." Mind you, I don't consider trolling necessarily bad or evil. Heck, I'd guess 90% of the posts on this board are trolling (my own included). There's nothing wrong with it.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:59 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

BJWD wrote:

Well, we are about a week into this now, and nare a murder reported. So, will somebody please explain to me why:

Does not cause this:

Well, open a gay bar in some Christian religious communities and see how long before a pipe bomb shows up in their mail.

Indeed. And I think the number of muslims globally who would countenance violence against someone who challenges the tenets of their faith is far, far larger than the number of Christians who would countenance violence against those that challenge their tenets. However, in North America, I would argue the number of Muslims citizens who have committed acts of violence against others on religious grounds is not any different in number than the number of Christian citizens who have committed such acts of violence.

In fact, I think given the prevalence of North American hate groups that profess a belief in Jesus etc and use Jesus etc to buttress their hate, I would much rather see Christians police their own for a change.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:08 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

I'm an empiricist. Show me the T-scores.

Quote:

Fanaticism is a very, very real problem in islam and has been from Day 1.

As I've said before, the Muslims I've personally known did not suffer from fanaticism. Muslims in the US and Uzbekland that I knew very well.

Quote:

I would like for people to be able to criticize islam without the sponge-like absorbers of PC propaganda immediately yelling "WHAT ABOUT THE CHRISTIANS" as if something can never be examined in and of itself (unless it is a dominant white-person 'thing', of course)

And I would like people to focus on the acts, and not try to generalize about an entire race, gender, or religion. I'm no fan of religion myself, but I don't believe in making policy based upon unsubstantiated fear and loathing. Muslims are a part of the Western fabric, and assailing them a priori isn't going to alleviate the situation. Call it PC if you want, but I believe in assessing people on an individual level.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:23 am Post subject:

Though I'm a thoroughgoing individualist, I do feel that a group of people who all believe in the same book as Truth are going to have enough points of contact in what they think is right/wrong etc for generalizations to be made about the whole. The T-scores, well, no. But you are welcome to watch the news about SE Asia for updates. Unfortunately, I feel quite confident that Europe will learn some very painful lessons (again) in the near future. This problem is not going away and terrorism is the tip of the iceberg.

Display posts from previous:

	Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Page 3 of 4

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe