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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Congrats freethought, with more hard work like this you will rise quickly in the L.S.B. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Congrats freethought, with more hard work like this you will rise quickly in the L.S.B. |
This is what you wrote:
| Quote: |
| Iran is inherently evil. Weighing the two options of destroying Iran or letting it exist, I think even if the price is heavy, the latter option is very very distasteful....... By destroying Iran I mean making it so there is no Iran left anymore. |
And I think you've simply realized how vile your comment was and now changing your position, but now with your changed story/position/take on your comment, if you think you can "destroy Iran" without causing hundreds of thousands of deaths etc, you're crazy. And I also think that makes YOU worse than a anyone who denies the holocaust. Maybe not worse than those who committed it, but certainly worse than those who deny it. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Congrats freethought, with more hard work like this you will rise quickly in the L.S.B. |
This is what you wrote:
| Quote: |
| Iran is inherently evil. Weighing the two options of destroying Iran or letting it exist, I think even if the price is heavy, the latter option is very very distasteful....... By destroying Iran I mean making it so there is no Iran left anymore. |
And I think you've simply realized how vile your comment was and now changing your position, but now with your changed story/position/take on your comment, if you think you can "destroy Iran" without causing hundreds of thousands of deaths etc, you're crazy. And I also think that makes YOU worse than a anyone who denies the holocaust. Maybe not worse than those who committed it, but certainly worse than those who deny it. |
1. Not changing anything. Im not responsible for your lack of reading comprehension.
2. I know exactly what it would take to destroy Iran. id be happy to give them a chance to overthrow their own vile leadership. But it seems like they are rallying around Hitlerbabba and the Mullah clowns. You know what we do with bad apples, dont you?
3. I really dont care what a member of the L.S.B. thinks about me. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Teacher avoidance of emotive and
controversial history
Teachers and schools avoid emotive and controversial
history for a variety of reasons, some of which are
well-intentioned. Some feel that certain issues are
inappropriate for particular age groups or decide in
advance that pupils lack the maturity to grasp them.
Where teachers lack confidence in their subject
knowledge or subject-specific pedagogy, this can also
be a reason for avoiding certain content. Staff may
wish to avoid causing offence or appearing insensitive
to individuals or groups in their classes. In particular
settings, teachers of history are unwilling to challenge
highly contentious or charged versions of history in
which pupils are steeped at home, in their community
or in a place of worship. Some teachers also feel that
the issues are best avoided in history, believing them
to be taught elsewhere in the curriculum such as in
citizenship or religious education.
For example, a history department in a northern
city recently avoided selecting the Holocaust as a
topic for GCSE coursework for fear of confronting
anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among
some Muslim pupils. In another department, teachers
were strongly challenged by some Christian parents
for their treatment of the Arab-Israeli conflict and
the history of the state of Israel that did not accord
with the teachings of their denomination. In another
history department, the Holocaust was taught despite
anti-Semitic sentiment among some pupils, but
the same department deliberately avoided teaching
the Crusades at Key Stage 3 because their balanced
treatment of the topic would have directly challenged
what was taught in some local mosques.
Where teachers model the processes of critical enquiry
that characterise the adult discipline of the subject,
history teaching may well clash with a narrow and
highly partisan version of family or communal history
in which some pupils have been reared. In some
settings, emotive and controversial history is avoided
because it is considered irrelevant to the needs of
pupils. In an all-white school, little black history may
be taught at all on the grounds that there are no black
pupils to whom it would be relevant.
In some schools, teachers also respond to the
students� wishes to avoid history being complicated
and problematical. This clearly affects the teaching of
emotive and controversial history.
7. Lack of balance in teaching emotive and
controversial history
In selecting content to be taught within existing
frameworks and specifications, the way that teachers
handle emotive and controversial history can have
a negative impact on pupils. Recent research on the
impact of the teaching of the transatlantic slave trade
and its abolition at Key Stage 3 shows that where
black people are portrayed as victims, then Afro-
Caribbean pupils and their parents can feel alienated
and disconnected as a result. The same is true among
black pupils where there are hardly any black faces
represented at all in their history curriculum. Equally, in
certain educational settings, white working-class pupils
in the minority can feel alienated if the role of white
abolitionists in the process of abolition is so downplayed
that all credit is given to economic factors and black
resistance in ending the slave trade. There is also the
tendency to introduce stories of disasters, technological
and economic inferiority and brutality to motivate
students. Such perspectives can easily lead to students
dismissing the past and its people as stupid and inferior. |
You know what else they avoid in the history class?
The American war of independence. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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I want this to be a serious thread. Take your personal crap to the Africa thread, which has already been ruined.
WW2, and the lessons of Hitler are major historical moments for the West (and others). We let our tribalism and nationalisms get so out of hand, that we killed tens upon tens of millions of people, some of them due to their race. This is a key part of our shared history and of our collective conscience. To not teach what WE Westerners did to each other and others, and specifically the Jews, is absurd.
I have been attacked time and time again for saying that this stuff was happening. Here is the evidence. Now, for the (formerly, now, I hope) committed mulitcult types, how do we undo this damage?
Which culture do you want to prevail, and how are we going to ensure that this happens? |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I Now, for the (formerly, now, I hope) committed mulitcult types, how do we undo this damage?
Which culture do you want to prevail, and how are we going to ensure that this happens? |
Well, the report on how to address emotive and controversial history is a good start. What did you think of its recommendations, BJWD? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is a disposition. Teachers do not want to offend, and are scared of this particular group. What must change is a cultural fear of offending and a fear of muslim violence and hate.
The recommendations are meaningless unless the teachers are actually comfortable teaching the material they are given. This is a cultural problem and must happen from top to bottom. This, is but one disgusting example of our religion of "tolerance at all costs".
But, on to them.
1) Professional development. To help teachers teach these subjects better.
2) There must be school-wide policies to deal with "emotive" (oh so 1984 to call the Holocaust emotive) historical issues.
3) Make sure lessons are planned and coherent. (Ok, Capitan obvious super teacher is on the loose in the UK.)
4) Encourage teachers to teach.
5) Buy more books and other resources.
6) Improve the evidence used to make "emotive" historical clams.
So, GAJ, since it does not directly say "offend religious crazies with the truth at all cost" I don't think that much will change. We tolerate them. We surrender to their anger.
While it is fine to offer more evidence (the only really meaningful recommendation of them all) if what they learn in Mosque by the bearded dude representing GOD tells them is opposite, well, look at Kansas to see who religious nutz support (state or god). |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Simple solution is to stop teaching people 'religion', and make them accept reality. The moment people stop seeing each other as a jew, muslim or anything else, the closer we are to not having to deal with things like this. When people are no longer, muslims, jews, christians, hindus or whatever, then they are just people.
Same goes for ethnicity. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| So, GAJ, since it does not directly say "offend religious crazies with the truth at all cost" I don't think that much will change. We tolerate them. We surrender to their anger. |
Ok, so we know of ONE school that decided not to teach a unit on the holocaust, but you've decided that additional support and training for teachers will not be enough to stem the rising tide of holocaust denial in UK schools. What would you suggest?
And freethought - how do you propose to "make them accept reality"?
Last edited by gang ah jee on Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
Simple solution is to stop teaching people 'religion', and make them accept reality. The moment people stop seeing each other as a jew, muslim or anything else, the closer we are to not having to deal with things like this. When people are no longer, muslims, jews, christians, hindus or whatever, then they are just people.
Same goes for ethnicity. |
Couldn't agree more. This is mulitculturalism. Every idiot to her community, every fool to his mosque.
Tell your boys back in Ottawa that when they inevitably take power again, they might want to learn from the UK's mistakes. |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
The UK is ahead of us, in terms of PC. We will join them shortly (we meaning Canadians). It just isn't possible to have an open, honest society when a parallel society of aggressive religious types is beginning to dominate demographically.
I suppose the UK can almost be written off as a Western country. Sadly, the enlightenment is drawing to an end. The post-modern criticism was perhaps true. The absence of truth does not offer a society any benefit. We have fallen into ourselves, and no longer are able to defend something we don't even believe exists.
It seems we are encouraging our colonization. Suppress our culture and history and encourage theirs. Ah well, it was a good run. Steyn is right. America is alone. |
Is this the result of the same firebrand lobby of the far-away middle east that cries death and pain to those who hinder hijab-wearing, but if you are in their countries and you wear a Christian cross around your neck, your arrest and severe manhandling is completely justified. This ridiculous double standard is so dumb. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| So, GAJ, since it does not directly say "offend religious crazies with the truth at all cost" I don't think that much will change. We tolerate them. We surrender to their anger. |
Ok, so we know of ONE school that decided not to teach a unit on the holocaust, but you've decided that additional support and training for teachers will not be enough to stem the rising tide of holocaust denial in UK schools. What would you suggest?
And freethought - how do you propose to "make them accept reality"? |
There are more than one. They used one as an example, but the article makes clear that there are more than one by using the plural form of 'school'.
| Quote: |
Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Governmentbacked study has revealed.
The researchers gave the example of a secondary school in an unnamed northern city, which dropped the Holocaust as a subject for GCSE coursework. |
Boy, if that is what is happening in a "northern" city, imagine Londonistan.
But on to your question. There is nothing to suggest. There must be a large-scale cultural change. The things we now value (tolerance, diversity etc etc) are of no value. How does this happen? I don't know.
Do you have a suggestion? |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
The UK is ahead of us, in terms of PC. We will join them shortly (we meaning Canadians). It just isn't possible to have an open, honest society when a parallel society of aggressive religious types is beginning to dominate demographically.
I suppose the UK can almost be written off as a Western country. Sadly, the enlightenment is drawing to an end. The post-modern criticism was perhaps true. The absence of truth does not offer a society any benefit. We have fallen into ourselves, and no longer are able to defend something we don't even believe exists.
It seems we are encouraging our colonization. Suppress our culture and history and encourage theirs. Ah well, it was a good run. Steyn is right. America is alone. |
I've got a few issues with what's been said here. You're saying this is proof of the end of civilisation in the UK? Yet you do so on the basis of a handful of examples, in a specialised study commissioned to tackle the very problems that you use to cry wolf.
This doesn't seem at all illogical to you? UK government research aimed at tackling the very issue you're concerned about, and you use that as proof to say they're failing?
If problems exist in a few schools, that we're aware of on the basis of this report, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world chicken little.
More evidence that some on this board have their preconceptions and only require the evidence to agree with them. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
The UK is ahead of us, in terms of PC. We will join them shortly (we meaning Canadians). It just isn't possible to have an open, honest society when a parallel society of aggressive religious types is beginning to dominate demographically.
I suppose the UK can almost be written off as a Western country. Sadly, the enlightenment is drawing to an end. The post-modern criticism was perhaps true. The absence of truth does not offer a society any benefit. We have fallen into ourselves, and no longer are able to defend something we don't even believe exists.
It seems we are encouraging our colonization. Suppress our culture and history and encourage theirs. Ah well, it was a good run. Steyn is right. America is alone. |
I've got a few issues with what's been said here. You're saying this is proof of the end of civilisation in the UK? Yet you do so on the basis of a handful of examples, in a specialised study commissioned to tackle the very problems that you use to cry wolf.
This doesn't seem at all illogical to you? UK government research aimed at tackling the very issue you're concerned about, and you use that as proof to say they're failing?
If problems exist in a few schools, that we're aware of on the basis of this report, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world chicken little.
More evidence that some on this board have their preconceptions and only require the evidence to agree with them. |
I think this is one small example of a larger outcome that our cultural focus of late has brought us. |
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