Korean Job Discussion Forums

[gang ah jee]

[thepeel]

The first part of your reply I strongly disagree with.

I have know this to be the case for a number of years via anecdotal evidence. I even spoke of it on this site and was called a 'racist'.

Surprise! I was right. As I understood it then, and now, the more angry elements get what they want when you live in a society with no balls. England, for all her soccer brawls and bar-room tough talk, has no balls. No self-respecting nation would allow herself to kneel down for a mouthful like this. And the only loud reaction you get in England is a racist one. That is another major problem. We are meeting their tribalism with more tribalism.

About the second part, I agree. Good luck. Post-modern relativism is the final nail in our cultural coffin. I've been returning to this idea in the past months. When I first explored PM, in my undergrad days, I tossed the PM critique aside. Truth can be deducted and rationally agreed upon. I still believe that. But, a post-modern society can not handle the more raw and aggressive/angry elements of a barbaric, pre-modern culture. England does not have the cultural tool-kit to appropriately deal with this, in my opinion. And not just the UK. Canada too.

So, your suggestion is basically to rebuild this tool-kit. I'm down with that. How?

Also, what are our "core values". I've forgotten.

[freethought]

It's not so much meeting things with 'no balls'. It's more a matter of getting elected that is the issue. You piss off a tightly knit, closed community, whether it be based on national background or religion, it can cause major electoral challenges, often resulting in defeat. The same can be said to occur along neighbourhood lines. You tell the people of one ward, district etc something they don't want to hear, whether it be true or not, it causes problems.

In short, people and emotions are the problems. Eliminating religion removes but one sociological factor, while dozens more remain. Does that mean we shouldn't do anything, no. We should do as much as possible to remove these factors, especially religion.

The issue is, however, that it is far more complex than having balls or eliminating a given causative factor (religion or a particular religion). But when 5.5 of the planet's roughly 6.5 billion people believe in fairy tales and hocus pocus of one sort or another, then we have a fundamentally irrational society/species, and getting it to behave rationally simply may not be in the cards.

[gang ah jee]

[SPINOZA]

Well, you've always got to be careful with the Daily Mail. This school in this unnamed northern city will be majority Muslim. My mother taught for many years in such a school. Faced with a class of 90% Muslim faces, many of whom express open hatred for Jews and Israel, Holocaust material is bound to cause trouble. It saddens me that this is the case, but in such schools, they just give up.

Let's put this into perspective. The UK's Muslim population is approx 3% (a little under 2 million of a 60 million total). This is just one school in what I assume is an overwhelmingly Muslim school in some very poor area of a northern city, so untypical English circumstances. Less than 50% of Muslims own their own homes, so these people live mainly in areas of council housing - poor conditions by British standards. I don't think it's likely we'll see an epidemic of schools playing down the Holocaust given that the schools many Muslims attend are precisely this kind of school. Muslims in mainly white schools will just have to deal with it, as the Holocaust will be going nowhere from British education generally. And it's hardly as though the Brits are just getting walked over by Muslims given that 47% of Muslim students report incidents of Islamaphobia and also police-on-Muslim stop-and-searches are always disproportionately high.

[bigverne]

[stevemcgarrett]

What Britain now suffers from is what is afflicting much of Western Europe these days: creeping socialism and all the apologetics that goes with that. British academia is mired in pc thought of the sort that would turn Orwell in his grave. It's sad, really, and makes Blair, a true moderate, come across in the media as a conservative.

Who's next? Italy? Spain? Greece? France? (They all have vocal communist and socialist elements too, to be sure, but religion and other factors have enabled them to resist at least some of the slime).

[gang ah jee]

[bigverne]

[thepeel]

Spinoza.
http://www.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enSG214SG215&ncl=1115004928&hl=en
I dislike the "source" game. This story is even in the loony-left rags like the Guardian.

About "islamophobia". Phobia means fear. It should be Islamobigot. Using phobia is an attempt to talk down to people.

And the points you made. I agree with 2 (though, as we see here, it does influence),3,4,5 and to some extent the others. 3,4,5 are demonstratively true. The more "muslim" someone is, the more dangerous they tend to become. The more you 'believe' in the Koran, the more likely you are to do that which is demands. Full Stop. And number 8. Well, I think we should all be hostile to an ideology that is the damn opposite of what liberal societies ought to be. But 6, I don't hold. I agree with many of their criticisms.

But this isn't about them. This is about us. Yes, us/them. How are we, in our nations, going to ensure that we don't become like them. islam is not a Western culture, and holds totally different assumptions. Time to face up to this and put the name-calling away.

And Steyn. Is he unhelpful even when he is right? That, is our problem. That kind of thinking.

[gang ah jee]

No call on item 7, BJWD?

[thepeel]

[Big_Bird]

From what I recall, most kids went through school without coming accross the Holocaust anyway. In First year you did the stone age up to the Romans and finally the Anglo-Saxon invasion. In second year you studied medieaval Kings and Queens, the murder in the Cathedral, the princes in the tower etc and fascinating 12th century torture and execution techniques, and in Third year you did the industrial revolution. Only those who chose to go on and do a History O'level ever got a glimpse of 20th century history. Maybe things have changed since Ah were a lass.

[thepeel]

[khyber]