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expectations to speak...Korean!
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ChuckECheese

Joined: 20 Jul 2006

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject:

Gord wrote:

ChuckECheese wrote:

Simply put.... I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY BRAIN CELLS IN LEARNING INSIGNIFICANT AND USELESS LANGUAGE LIKE KOREAN. I will continue to let Koreans accommodate me both in and out of the classroom.

I rather invest my brain cells in learning more useful Asian language like Chinese. I'm already fluent in Spanish.

If you plan on living in Korea permanently, yes, I think you should learn to speak Korean. However, I don't plan on living in this country forever. I'm just passing through.

I haven't been in the country now for over a year, yet in this time I've managed to generate on average more than $5K a month in income from Koreans and Korean businesses. I speak Korean pretty much every day, and it is a tad unfortunate that I had focused more on party tricks and seducing the ladies rather then general business Korean. But I seem to survive.

A language learned can be a tool if you wish it to be.

Quote:

But don't learn the language just to please and show respect to your Korean masters. Rolling Eyes

You should work on your insults. Your context is not well established, your position is not one of strength which would allow for the delivering of insults with impunity, and I do find that "overlords" works better than "masters" as it suggests a more defined vocabulary. When you have a stated position like yours which can only be defended with insults, you need to establish a persona in which people would rather not step into an insult contest with you as humiliation would be certain.

Combining a weak argument and grade school insults only invites a world of pain.

Example:

"It's a good think you are learning Spanish. You can help keep the Mexicans organized as they pick fruit with you after you finish teaching English in Korea."

See, that's how you do it. Take something you stated as a positive (learning Spanish), and spin it around so that it takes on the role that you were demeaning (low paying labour job) and a negative foreshadow of your future. And from this deminished standing, any insult you would send is unlikely to be as stinging and is more likely to further undermine your own social standing. It also removes the option for you to say you want stay teaching English as you've made it clear before that such a job is something that should be temporary and is relatively low paying. Essentially what we have here is your own personal tar baby. And no good can come from that.

Again, that's your personal opinion and you can interpret my statement however you like and twist my words all you want. I still don't wish to learn worthless language, Korean.

And I'm not insulting anyone. If any Korean or anyone else gets insulted because I said I don't want to learn Korean, f'ck'em. They're the racist. Would you be insulted if someone said they don't want to learn English, French, or what ever? Your statement is just idiotic.

I'm not learning Spanish now. I picked it up and learned it because my home is in Texas. As I said, if you are making home in the part of the world where they speak particular language, you should learn to speak it, wipe your ass with it, or what ever you like.

I stress it again, I'm not here to live in this country forever, I'M JUST PASSING THROUGH. Get it? Rolling Eyes

Quote:

I haven't been in the country now for over a year, yet in this time I've managed to generate on average more than $5K a month in income from Koreans and Korean businesses.

And on the final note, congratulations on making $5000 a month in Korea.
Do you speak and moan in Korean when you blow?

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject:

ChuckECheese wrote:

Again, that's your personal opinion and you can interpret my statement however you like and twist my words all you want. I still don't wish to learn worthless language, Korean.

What's to twist? You don't want to learn Korean. Great. Power to you. But you claim that it's because Korean is a "worthless language" which is quite incorrect.

Quote:

And I'm not insulting anyone. If any Korean or anyone else gets insulted because I said I don't want to learn Korean, f'ck'em. They're the racist. Would you be insulted if someone said they don't want to learn English, French, or what ever? Your statement is just idiotic.

Quote:

I'm not learning Spanish now. I picked it up and learned it because my home is in Texas. As I said, if you are making home in the part of the world where they speak particular language, you should learn to speak it, wipe your ass with it, or what ever you like.

I stress it again, I'm not here to live in this country forever, I'M JUST PASSING THROUGH. Get it? Rolling Eyes

Quote:

And on the final note, congratulations on making $5000 a month in Korea.
Do you speak and moan in Korean when you blow?

When proclaiming your fluency in a language, you might want to actually read what you are replying to. I was referring to income generated through my use of Korean while outside of Korea. Being able to speak Korean is far more useful as it is far easier to market that skill into a useful income model despite your baseless claim to the contrary.

Though I find it quite ironic you should use prostitution as your vehicle of insult as I've often said went to Korea to pimp my mother tongue (which you are doing now), and that Korean prostitutes are generally far better paid on average than their Spanish speaking competition.

Plus it works better if your insult wasn't plagiarized from 12 year old children.

SuperHero

Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject:

Glad to see Gord back on the board.

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject:

SuperHero wrote:

Glad to see Gord back on the board.

Just checking in. I have to fly out mid-month on business before becoming a bum for a couple weeks. I'm hoping everything is still where I left it.

ChuckECheese

Joined: 20 Jul 2006

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject:

Gord wrote:

ChuckECheese wrote:

Again, that's your personal opinion and you can interpret my statement however you like and twist my words all you want. I still don't wish to learn worthless language, Korean.

What's to twist? You don't want to learn Korean. Great. Power to you. But you claim that it's because Korean is a "worthless language" which is quite incorrect.

So should I bend over and say Korean is the greatest? Rolling Eyes

Quote:

You've done your finest do insult anyone who suggested that your stated claims for why you wish to not learn a language are contradictory and curiously wrong. "What I really said...." generally only works on conversations held in private with no track record, not in forums where everyone can see what you really wrote.

So are you angry that I don't want to learn "worthless" Korean language? What's your point? Am I a racist because I didn't want to learn "worthless" Korean language? So you are insulted, so what?

Quote:

Passing through generally implies being in a certain spot for a short duration. If you believe that staying in the same country for many months (with the intention of being there a year or more) classifies as "passing through", you may wish to have your dictionary taken in for warranty service as it is clearly broken.

So please interpret "passing through in this life" for me. How long is passing through, genious? Interpretation of "passing through" may differ from a person to person and context to context. Are you God? How ever you interpret is the law?

Quote:

And on the final note, congratulations on making $5000 a month in Korea.
Do you speak and moan in Korean when you blow?

My final word? Get a life, dude, and do your whining some place else...... Rolling Eyes

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject:

ChuckECheese wrote:

So should I bend over and say Korean is the greatest? Rolling Eyes

Rather that you shouldn't rely on insulting others to justify personal decisions.

Quote:

So are you angry that I don't want to learn "worthless" Korean language? What's your point? Am I a racist because I didn't want to learn "worthless" Korean language? So you are insulted, so what?

Never suggested I was insulted by your not wanting to learn Korean, nor that you sported racist feelings. Rather, I focused on what you used as justifications for your stated opinion.

Quote:

So please interpret "passing through in this life" for me. How long is passing through, genious? Interpretation of "passing through" may differ from a person to person and context to context. Are you God? How ever you interpret is the law?

I understand. You lost your receipt to your dictionary and can't send it back under warranty for repair. Very well then, I'll lend you one of mine.

Quote:

And thanks for speaking so highly of me of my insult to you which you really took it so seriously since it appears to be so. Razz

I'm just asking that if you are going to rely on insults to be your sole support for a stated position, at least do them well. Hence my constructive advice on how to do them better.

Quote:

My final word? Get a life, dude, and do your whining some place else...... Rolling Eyes

I've met Nolan Bushnell, and you are no Nolan Bushnell. He would be saddened that you've taken the name of one of his projects meant to bring happiness to many and wrapped it up in a vehicle of hate.

ChuckECheese

Joined: 20 Jul 2006

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject:

Gord wrote:

ChuckECheese wrote:

So should I bend over and say Korean is the greatest? Rolling Eyes

Rather that you shouldn't rely on insulting others to justify personal decisions.

Quote:

So are you angry that I don't want to learn "worthless" Korean language? What's your point? Am I a racist because I didn't want to learn "worthless" Korean language? So you are insulted, so what?

Never suggested I was insulted by your not wanting to learn Korean, nor that you sported racist feelings. Rather, I focused on what you used as justifications for your stated opinion.

Quote:

I understand. You lost your receipt to your dictionary and can't send it back under warranty for repair. Very well then, I'll lend you one of mine.

Quote:

And thanks for speaking so highly of me of my insult to you which you really took it so seriously since it appears to be so. Razz

I'm just asking that if you are going to rely on insults to be your sole support for a stated position, at least do them well. Hence my constructive advice on how to do them better.

Quote:

My final word? Get a life, dude, and do your whining some place else...... Rolling Eyes

I've met Nolan Bushnell, and you are no Nolan Bushnell. He would be saddened that you've taken the name of one of his projects meant to bring happiness to many and wrapped it up in a vehicle of hate.

So what's your arguement? Don't BS and just say it!

1. Am I wrong to say that I don't want to learn Korean language?

2. Are you insulted because I don't want to learn Korean language due to the fact I believe it's worthless?

3. Are you upset and insulted because I said "passing through" can be interpreted differently, but not as you defined?

4. Are you just stating the fact that Korean language is not worthless and it's more important than English or any other languages and all FTs MUST learn Korean?

5. Do you just want to show off that you make $5000/month by speaking Korean but not by teaching English like the loser FTs?

5. All of the above?

Which is it? Take a pick.

And I hope my uncle Nolan had insulted you the same way that I have. Uncle Nolan wouldn't be saddened, he'd be proud. Cool

luvnpeas

Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject:

jazblanc77 wrote:

luvnpeas wrote:

jazblanc77 wrote:

Considering most Koreans have studied English for multiple years in school, hogwans, and university, I always think it's funny when these expectations arise.

There is a big difference between learning language in a classroom, and learning it in its native country.

Also, it wasn't clear from the context....does your wife speak Korean?

Yes, that difference is clear in two cases:

1.) If you are studying the language, FULL-TIME in an immersion language program (I don't know about most of you, but I'm here to work, and time doesn't permit me to study that intensively and make money at the same time).
2.) If learning by osmosis were possible

The difference is clear across all situations that involve language learning. Learning by osmosis is more or less possible: You didn't learn your mother tongue by formal instruction.

Quote:

At the workplace, we are paid to be NATIVE SPEAKERS, so in my view it would be poor work etiquette to speak Korean there.

We are paid to teach ESL. If you were Latino paid to teach Spanish in an American school, nobody would call it poor etiquette to speak English with your colleagues. It would be rude to demand everybody speak Spanish to you. It would be rude to refuse social interaction with fellow teachers on the grounds they can't speak Spanish, when you can speak some English.

Quote:

Furthermore, in the workplace, where you are dealing with "trained" English co-teachers, etc., there is no reason why those people shouldn't be able to communicate with you in English, none AT ALL!

Read the original question. It didn't concern speaking Korean with teachers who are near-fluent in English.

Quote:

Whether my wife speaks Korean or not is outside of this issue as started by the OP.

It is inside the topic you raised by mentioning the expectations of your wife's Korean family.

yingwenlaoshi

Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject:

No Korean! Bu jiang guoyu!

pest1

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Korea

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject:

tomato wrote:

pest1 wrote:

Even the Korean government expect Korean English teachers to teach only in English in the next few years as to create an all English environment for the students.

Who said anything about speaking Korean in English class?
All I am advocating is speaking Korean outside the English class!
I ask you the same question I asked passport220:
how does knowing Korean force you to speak Korean in English class.
I know how to fry an egg, but I never fry eggs in English class.

tomato wrote:

■ The kids shouldn't speak Korean in English class, but when they do, it would help to understand them.

Soon after I arrived in Korea, I held up a picture book and one of the students said, "안 보여." I had to ask the student to write down the sentence on a piece of paper. Then I had to run to the office with the piece of paper and show it to a Korean, who told me that it meant, "I can't see."

■ A statement or question in English is ambiguous, but each of its possible meanings translates differently in Korean.

In one of the Brainy English chain's storybooks, one of the characters asks "Is it a boy or a girl?" The student read it as:

which implies "Is it one or the other?" I translated this as "남자아이 또는 여자아이입니까?"

I had to explain that the correct intonation would be:

thereby implying "Which is it?" I translated that as "남자아이입니까 여자아이입니까?"

■ On a rare occasion, you might have to teach the children something in Korean.

On one assignment, the lesson for the day was on past tense.
I read the book I See Colors ("I see red, I see blue, I see yellow, I see green . . ."), except that I changed the verb tense ("I saw red, I saw blue, I saw yellow, I saw green . . .").

An elementary student asked me why I was reading the book differently.
I explained that I was reading it in past tense.
She didn't understand.
I explained that I was reading it in 과거 시제.
She still didn't understand.
I explained that I was saying 봤습니다 instead of 봅니다.
She understood.

You've given plenty of examples of using your Korean skill in your English classes. Maybe you should read what you wrote more carefully before you make a fool of yourself.
You may not fry an egg but if they know you can fry it they will ask you to cook for them. Does that make sense to you? I would try to explain it to you in Korean but I can't speak it...

Last edited by pest1 on Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:10 pm; edited 6 times in total

pest1

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Korea

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject:

laogaiguk wrote:

pest1 wrote:

laogaiguk wrote:

I have pointed this out before...

In a convenience store:
Foreigner 1 - only speaks English
Foreigner 2 - only speaks English
Clerk - decides to start speaking English all the time
Foreigner 3 - speaks Koreans and gets pissy at the clerk
Clerk - ok, go back to speaking Korean to not upset them
Foreigner 4 - only speaks English
Foreigner 5 - only speaks English
Clerk - *beep* it!

And yes, most foreigners I have met don't speak much Korean. Heck, over half I met don't even use "Juseyo" when ordering things.

Consider the reverse
Korean 1 - Speaks good English and wants to practise with a foreigner
English teacher- Oh all Koreans speak English well.
Korean 2 - Don't speak English well but will try to speak when necessary.
English teacher- Maybe not all Koreans can speak English well, but at least they will try.
Korean 3 - Don't speak any English and tries to communicate to a foreigner in Korean.
English teacher- I thought all Koreans speak English. Don't you speak English?
Korean 4 - Don't speak English and don't wanna deal with foreigners.
English teacher- ....

So after a while wouldn't the English teacher figure out that not all Koreans are the same when it comes to speaking English and they won't all speak to you in the same language at all times? Why is it the clerk can't figure that out?

Ah but you will say clerks are not as smart as English teachers? Rolling Eyes

You really could deal without the sarcasm. Sorry if I don't agree with your whining.
People are people. They will (after awhile) change to Korean if they think the guy/gal does know it. But so many foreigners DON'T SPEAK KOREAN, not even enough to be polite when ordering or have a good grasp of the numbers. To come across a foriegner who speaks well enough to understand (for sure) what they are saying is not common. This is what you guys don't seem to understand, especially anyone complaining about workers in Itaewon. For me, they usually do switch over once they realize I really do understand them and they understand me. But it takes awhile while they make sure that I understood what they said and got the numbers right. Even if they did immediately switch to Korean the second someone started talking in Korean, that wouldn't help. More often than not, even in that situation, when they start blaring off numbers or asking other things, the person will not understand them, being as most foriegners don't speak even basic practical Korean (let alone conversational) Korean. So they figure it's just easier to stay in English. You have to break that barrier down. I manage to. Personally, I don't even know where you guys live or are having this problem on such a large basis. It almost never happens to me (I live in Seoul now). I am not saying it doesn't happen, that would be bad logic. I am just asking where this always happens that it is such a big deal.

I am sure a few will want to practice their English and won't change. I am sure a few think you could never speak their language (or want to) and won't change. I don't blame either of them, though it might annoy you guys. Move to a small town, you won't have this problem (trust me, all I ever did was talk in Korean).

Dude what are you talking about? Why do you assme I'm whining? I'm simply stating a fact that it's not so hard to understand that people are different in some ways. If you fail to understand that maybe you can't hold a job as an English teacher or a clerk.

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject:

Pest1: I answered the question you posed. You ignored my answer. Fine, no skin off my back.

pest1

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Korea

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject:

laogaiguk wrote:

Pest1:

I answered the question you posed. You ignored my answer. Fine, no skin off my back.

I read your post like 3 times, and still see no connection to my post. If you wanna boast your Korean skill great. I can't speak Korean so I think those who can do probably have something to boast about. But don't try to pretend that you are answering my question, which was a rhetorical one to begin with.

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:47 am Post subject:

pest1 wrote:

laogaiguk wrote:

Pest1:

I answered the question you posed. You ignored my answer. Fine, no skin off my back.

Dude, that was not boasting about my Korean skills. Very little of my post was even devoted to it, and there were no "boasting" adjectives at all. Either you are intentionally diverting attention away or just missed the actual meat of my post. Either way, you asked

Quote:

Why is it the clerk can't figure that out?

and I answered. Simple as that.

Privateer

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:31 am Post subject:

tomato wrote:

When I compare 캔아이헬프유 vampires with white racists, male chauvinists, Nazis, and other hateful bigots, some contributors say that I am exaggerating.
Is there really any difference?

<snip>

At one time, Georgia had a State law against teaching a Black person to read.
Here, there are all sorts of restrictions against 외국인's practicing Korean.

<snip>

Just as Lucille Ball demonstrated how silly women can get, just as JJ demonstrated how silly Black people can get, we demonstrate how silly 외국인's can get.

<snip>

That may be somehow different from the Nazi book burning, but I don't see it.

<snip>

Will we fight back?
Or will the 캔아이헬프유 vampires keep us all barefoot and pregnant?

Don't you think you're overdramatizing just a little?

From anyone else, I'd assume this wasn't serious.

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