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Apathetic high school students
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m8888888



Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Apathetic high school students Reply with quote

I just started teaching at a public high school. It's a vocational high school, so the students are at a very low English level, and don't have a lot of incentive to learn English. In a lot of my classes, the kids are apathetic, don't try, and don't care. If I try planning any activities they do on their own, they don't do them. They just talk with their partner in Korean, or sit there. Which I totally understand- if I had to go to school from 8am-9pm, I'd be tired and wouldn't care, either. But since I'm the teacher, I want to get them involved. What's the secret, all you great teachers out there?! How do you get students involved and interested?! I can't imagine singing or playing games with them, stuff I always liked doing in high school French class.
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ChuckECheese



Joined: 20 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Apathetic high school students Reply with quote

m8888888 wrote:
I just started teaching at a public high school. It's a vocational high school, so the students are at a very low English level, and don't have a lot of incentive to learn English. In a lot of my classes, the kids are apathetic, don't try, and don't care. If I try planning any activities they do on their own, they don't do them. They just talk with their partner in Korean, or sit there. Which I totally understand- if I had to go to school from 8am-9pm, I'd be tired and wouldn't care, either. But since I'm the teacher, I want to get them involved. What's the secret, all you great teachers out there?! How do you get students involved and interested?! I can't imagine singing or playing games with them, stuff I always liked doing in high school French class.


Get a few decks of cards and show them how to play various card games (5 card stud, black jack, etc.).

Let them play these games but they must only speak English. Let them play for prize or money. Wink
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Mark7



Joined: 22 May 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: I'm in your boat Reply with quote

Dude, or (dudette),

I'm totally in your boat. A few of my classes are very difficult to do because these kids don't care one lick. I also teach Freshmen at my high school, and so I have kids who are still middle-schoolish and still don't care. So, the experience is humbling at first because you think these kids are enthusiastic to meet a foreign teacher, but they really don't want to do anything except go home.

They don't do my homework, so I made them do a pop quiz to see if they studied their dialog from last week.

So, don't feel bad, because I felt the same thing today, these kids were apathetic and cared for nothing during today's lesson, and they feel like they do not need to listen to me because I'm the "way-gook-in." I try to do games that get the entire class involved, and don't do what I did last week and try to do a game where the class has to watch a few kids do it, because they don't give a darn to watch and just talk in Korean.

My biggest advice is to keep teaching it through, never stop, and only stop if there are kids that are disrupting the class. I also feel for them too, I once was a high school kid who did not care either. But you'll be surprised, there are a few that do care and they are worth teaching. Also, be loud and use a strong tone of voice, and use hand motions to draw them together. Sometimes, I whisper words so they can guess what they are trying to say to you.

Good luck.
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formerflautist



Joined: 30 May 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of games. Keep them interested and force them to speak. I made a modified version of Taboo that my students love. Try teaching practical English dialogue and forcing them to memorize. I'm going to try out them making their own comics today and see what they come up with. The best thing is just to push through it.
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merkurix



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Apathetic high school students Reply with quote

m8888888 wrote:
I just started teaching at a public high school. It's a vocational high school, so the students are at a very low English level, and don't have a lot of incentive to learn English. In a lot of my classes, the kids are apathetic, don't try, and don't care. If I try planning any activities they do on their own, they don't do them. They just talk with their partner in Korean, or sit there. Which I totally understand- if I had to go to school from 8am-9pm, I'd be tired and wouldn't care, either. But since I'm the teacher, I want to get them involved. What's the secret, all you great teachers out there?! How do you get students involved and interested?! I can't imagine singing or playing games with them, stuff I always liked doing in high school French class.


M8888888, I sooooo know how you must feel. I taught at one of those a few years ago. How does one go about teaching the lowest tracked students in Korea, who are not there by choice, but because their grades in middle school and elementary school were so low that they couldn't cut it in a normal-tracked school.

Most of these students will never attend a university. And only a handful of them will ever continue their studies at a vocational trade college. The vast majority of them will join the entry-level job market for the technical jobs they trained for in high school (electronics soldering, indoor electrical wiring, baking, etc.) or they will jump straight into the miltary.

The bottom line is that where soo many teachers have failed with them in the past, the students are not motivated by ANY kind of studying--English or not, no one has been able to "miraculously save them." They don't like their own vocational classes; they especially abhor the classes that they will probably not use much (like ENglish) and not much can be done with the native speaker as they cannot understand him or many have no interest in engagin with a foreigner.

When I started working there, some teachers objected to my presence there, not because they had something against me. But because they thought that a native speaker who has to teach a bunch of students pre-elementary level English to a bunch of unmotivated and unintelligent students is a big waste of time and money.

On top of that, you also have many students (especially boys) who routinely misbehave and defy authority, which exacerbates the problem even more.

So the question is what can you do? One thing I did was I always had the Korean teacher there at all times (sadly, in those types of schools you will always need the Korean partner teachers help; you cannot survive on your own without them present always). ANd try different hands-on activities (drawing, music, clay sculpting, flashcards, board games (Word-Up works well). I had to teach English fundamentals with these kids.

And as sad as this sounds: try your best, but don't expect to much. You will have some posters who will tell you to be the superhero teacher and turn them around and inspire them so that by the end of the year the entire class not only likes and loves English, but they are damn near fluent at the end. It's not realistic. Just do your best and have your partner teacher help out. External motivation (like candy) is also helps, as it is a Herculean feat to try to motivate these types of students intrisically. (where I used to work the boy students would ask me if I could give them cigarrettes instead of candy--yeah. )
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Pak Yu Man



Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: The Ida galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's see.

Korean mixes the advanced students with the idiots. It also doesn't matter if you pass or fail. You'll still pass. Korean schools won't hold a student back a year, so why would a lazy twit even try to do the work when he'll pass no matter what?
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one of my 1st year middle school classes, there is a 17 year old. I haven't really noticed the kid. Probably one of the taller ones. I'm not sure if he has been held back a few years, retarded, or maybe just didn't go to school for a few years. My co-teacher just told me about him and she won't give me much details, because she isn't sure.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
In one of my 1st year middle school classes, there is a 17 year old. I haven't really noticed the kid. Probably one of the taller ones. I'm not sure if he has been held back a few years, retarded, or maybe just didn't go to school for a few years. My co-teacher just told me about him and she won't give me much details, because she isn't sure.


Sounds to me like he's a North Korean refugee. My guess is your co-teacher knows about it, but won't tell you because she thinks you'll spill the beans to the other students. North Koreans refugees who attend school here don't like divulging that information to their classmates.
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oneofthesarahs



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Sacheon City

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found that older students really like pictionary. Start them off with concrete words like car, school, hamburger, etc. Then you can move on to more abstract words like rich, smart, tall. The better they get, the more difficult you can make the words. It's not a good game to play all the time, but it's good for breaking the ice.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:

Sounds to me like he's a North Korean refugee. My guess is your co-teacher knows about it, but won't tell you because she thinks you'll spill the beans to the other students. North Koreans refugees who attend school here don't like divulging that information to their classmates.


Maybe... but being 17 years old, the other students would most likely notice a NK accent. Unless the "re-education" schools here give refugees accent training too. But, I guess your explanation is the best one so far.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Apathetic high school students Reply with quote

m8888888 wrote:
I just started teaching at a public high school. It's a vocational high school, so the students are at a very low English level, and don't have a lot of incentive to learn English. In a lot of my classes, the kids are apathetic, don't try, and don't care. If I try planning any activities they do on their own, they don't do them. They just talk with their partner in Korean, or sit there. Which I totally understand- if I had to go to school from 8am-9pm, I'd be tired and wouldn't care, either. But since I'm the teacher, I want to get them involved. What's the secret, all you great teachers out there?! How do you get students involved and interested?! I can't imagine singing or playing games with them, stuff I always liked doing in high school French class.


You might be surprised how many of them like songs and games. You may also be surpriesd after a while to find out that there are at least a few whose knowledge of English is better than you thought. Do, however, remember to keep your expectations realistic and bear in mind that if they learn even a few very simple things it's still a victory.
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Jizzo T. Clown



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: at my wit's end

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to a vocational high school soon and this is a very interesting discussion.

My question is, Why do these kids need to study English in the first place? What is the goal of the school that kids on a vocational tract must study English?

My impression is that these are future cab drivers, welders, bartenders, and restaurant workers. If that's the case, could (or should) a course be built around those needs (i.e. skills basic enough to understand a foreigner when they encounter one)?
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Ekuboko



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Location: ex-Gyeonggi

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jizzo T. Clown wrote:
I'm going to a vocational high school soon and this is a very interesting discussion.

My question is, Why do these kids need to study English in the first place? What is the goal of the school that kids on a vocational tract must study English?

So did you take the job at Eun Hye?
Some of my old middle school students go there, I've seen them on the bus; and yeah, they were not the brightest when I taught them.

There is a final year boy who goes to my gym and he attends that school. He's decent at conversing in English so I hope you get to meet him, although he says the native English teacher doesn't teach 3rd years.
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bosintang



Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jizzo T. Clown wrote:
I'm going to a vocational high school soon and this is a very interesting discussion.

My question is, Why do these kids need to study English in the first place? What is the goal of the school that kids on a vocational tract must study English?


The short answer: they probably don't. The reality is that very few people in Korea will actually need to learn and use English, and the bottom 1/3rd definitely will not. However, welcome to El-bizarro Korea where the're crazy about learning English and everyone must put the appearance in of trying to learn it whether they will actually use it or not.

Quote:

My impression is that these are future cab drivers, welders, bartenders, and restaurant workers. If that's the case, could (or should) a course be built around those needs (i.e. skills basic enough to understand a foreigner when they encounter one)?


Not a bad idea. The student's level is probably *very* low and they will still need basic fundamentals. But teaching survival skills, and the more hands-on the better, is probably a good idea.
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Jizzo T. Clown



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: at my wit's end

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ekuboko wrote:
So did you take the job at Eun Hye?


Sure did--it sounds like a good gig, though I may have overestimated the students' language abilities! Cool
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