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HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FTA between the USA and Korea!!!!!!!
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JeJuJitsu

Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject:

jhaelin wrote:

btw i think the tobacco industry did exactly that...
that is to say, kill their customers, and still make a hefty profit.
addiction has its great rewards when it comes to enslaving consumers.
oh, and if nicotine is considered addictive...
how would you classify FOOD...slightly addictive, maybe a little?

Judging by the Canadian & midwest US cows in Korea, food must be very, very addictive.

igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject:

Hurray? Should we assume you strongly support "Free" Trade? If so you're not alone, so did Karl Marx Disinegration of national sovereignty & the hastening of social revolution & upheaval. Explain why this is a good thing. Are there not critics of this elitist programme? Guess, now that it's "law", what voices of opposition have to offer means very little, eh?

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject:

igotthisguitar wrote:

Hurray? Should we assume you strongly support "Free" Trade?

If so you're not alone, so did Karl Marx Twisted Evil

Disinegration of national sovereignty & the hastening of social revolution & upheaval. Explain why this is a good thing.

Are there not critics of this elitist programme?

Guess, now that it's "law", what voices of opposition have to offer means very little, eh?

Free trade has nothing to do with losing sovereignty. You sound like one of those mindless parrots with the "FTA 반대" signs, or like one of those DPRK stooges from the trade uinions. Which one are you?

Which brings me to "what voices of opposition have to offer". In this case very very little. Mindless stooges, the lot of them.

igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject:

jinju wrote:

Free trade has nothing to do with losing sovereignty.

jinju wrote:

Which brings me to "what voices of opposition have to offer". In this case very very little.
Mindless stooges, the lot of them.

Ok Joo

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject:

igotthisguitar wrote:

jinju wrote:

Free trade has nothing to do with losing sovereignty.

jinju wrote:

Which brings me to "what voices of opposition have to offer". In this case very very little.
Mindless stooges, the lot of them.

Ok Joo

1. If Korea doesnt like it, they can always pull out of the FTA. Nobody is going to invade them if they do.

2. Yes, mindless stooges.

that guy

Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Location: long gone

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:52 am Post subject:

I came across this link to a US trade brief over at the Marmot's.

I always wondered why the beer is so tasteless.

Quote:

Korea also has established tariff-rate quotas (TRQs) intended to provide minimum access to previously
closed markets or to maintain pre-Uruguay Round access. In-quota tariff rates may be very low or zero,
but the over-quota tariff rates for some products, mostly agricultural and fishery, are prohibitive. For
example, natural and artificial honey are subject to an over-quota tariff rate of 243 percent; skim and
whole milk powder, 176 percent; barley, 324 percent; malting barley, 513 percent; potatoes and potato
preparations, more than 304 percent; and popcorn, 630 percent. In addition, for some agricultural
products such as corn grits, popcorn, and soy flakes, Korea aggregates raw and value-added products
under the same quota. Domestic producer groups, which administer the quotas, invariably allocate the
more favorable in-quota tariff rate to their larger members, who import raw ingredients.

hogwonguy1979

Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:09 am Post subject:

hey on the upside I just saw where US sports networks will have better access to Korea. No more of the MBC-ESPN crap!!!! Anybody who watches ESPN Int will know its far better than what we have now. It'll mean better NFL, MLB, NBA, EPL etc

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:29 am Post subject:

jhaelin wrote:

i didn't have the patience to sift through all the postings so this comment may have already been addressed...

an often neglected but important aspect of this fta deal is regarding the intellectual property rights issues.
sure its really nice for the comsumer to have access to more foreign goods at lower prices but what happens when the opposite effect occurs.

for instance, koreans and expats mays get cheaper beef but in exchange they will have to pay much more for prescription drugs.
sure they may now have more choices of hollywood films and american tv programming to choose from, but all internet exchange will become much more heavily regulated.

Yes, every FTA has a trade-off, and particularly in the short-term there are some painful changes. Ex-pats may have to pay more for prescription drugs, but I doubt very much. Part of the reason prescription drugs are expensive in the US is because they are protected. That is more of an argument against trade restrictions in the US than one for trade barriers in Korea. I don't understand how internet exchange will become regulated, however.

Quote:

it is essential to recognize that fta's are not perpetrated by business interests to gain greater access to the consumers of other countries...
but rather fta's are pursued to gain greater access and conformity of the laws in target countries.
often and sadly this results in less consumer access and choice, as large multinationals gain greater control over the sovereign laws of target nations.

Multinationals are an inevitable reality in commodity-based industries. The more easily something can be produced, the more of a commodity it is. Large-scale economies are needed to be competitive with commodities. Just about everything grown is a commodity. Protecting commodities just makes them more corrupt and expensive; think marijuana in the US.

You have to convince me that multinationals are inherently worse than small producers, stultified innovation, and more expensive products.

Quote:

lets take the rice farming issue as a case example.
sure rice farming in korea is not as efficient as the mechanized large scale farming in usa, and this is why it can't compete.
the ideal of opening up the rice market completely would intitally seem to improve consumer choice as lower priced rice will be available.
but opening completely would also entail the influx of gm (genetically modified) rice, as well as other heavily industrialized farm products (e.g. artificially fertilized, chemically treated).

The hidden assumption here is that genetically modified rice is bad.

Quote:

can we really trust the capitalist doctrine of profit to insure the quality and safety of our food?

Almost. The more food produced and the more safely it is produced the more profitable it will be. Big profit can mean big danger, but that is why government regulatory bodies exist.

jhaelin

Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

here is a review of the fta provided by the U.S. trade publication (AgWeb.com).
http://www.agweb.com/get_article.aspx?pageid=135245&src=gennews

Quote:

Intellectual Property Rights Protections
The agreement provides high-level standards for protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights, including trademarks, copyrights and patents, consistent with U.S. standards.

the key point being "consistent with U.S. standards".
that is to say, in regards to generic prescription drugs and enforcement of copyright infringements laws (e.g. downloading movies with bittorent), Korea must now abide by U.S. laws.
drugs are cheaper in Korea because the majority are generic varieties. with the new fta, many of these will no longer be available and/or longer delays will occur before generic varieties can be produced due to enforcement of U.S. patent laws.
and unlike the piratebay incident where the Swedish government was unable to find piratebay liable because their filesharing service did not infringe Swedish law, Koreans and foreigners residing in Korea will be punisheable by laws "consistent with U.S. standards".
basically pfizer and hollywood now have lobbying power if not more, in Korean legislation.
in the near future the cost of prescription drugs will be effected as the ability to produce generic drugs will be hindered by U.S. patent laws.
similarly, when big Korean brother catches you downloading an mp3 or avi file, you better be afraid.

Kuros wrote:

You have to convince me that multinationals are inherently worse than small producers, stultified innovation, and more expensive products.

how about you convince me that multinationals are better than small producers.
i'll just refer to three issues that make me support small/indigenous businesses and the greater diversity that it affords, over the dominbation of markets by a handful of multinationals.
1) environmental/health issues - i don't think i need to elaborate this one!
2) accountability - if you don't like what your local branch of a multinational is selling you, who and where must you go to?
furthermore if there is only 1 or 2 large supplier of something how can a consumer apply the free will choice of buying somewhere else, if there is nothing/nowhere else.
e.g. if you buy everything from costco, because there is only costco, what can you do when costco decides to give you inferior or unsafe products?
3) corporations are not democratic - choices made by multinationals are made by a handful of individuals whose only responsibilities, as board members, are to the benfit and profit of the shareholders. i will assume you are not so naive as to not recognize the power that corporations have on governments.
fta's and WTA agreements inherently allow corporations to have influence upon the sovereign governments of involved nations.
the consumer cannot vote or fire the board members of multinational corporations, and only a few large stake shareholders have that power.
so by logical progression,
(a=b) corporations are undemocratic,
(a=c) ftas open up foreign governments to corporate influence,
(b=c) thus, ftas make particpating governments undemocratic!

Kuros wrote:

The hidden assumption here is that genetically modified rice is bad.

while your assumption is that it isn't. we can argue till we never convince each other regarding this. some think the benfits of gm are great, while others view the possible dangers horrific. this like other issues still await the clarity of more objective proof over subjective interests. similar to the global warming issue we may have to wait and see, but hopefully with enough time to spare. but allowing a handful of multinationals to decide what food we should eat is inherently dangerous.

Kuros wrote:

Almost. The more food produced and the more safely it is produced the more profitable it will be. Big profit can mean big danger, but that is why government regulatory bodies exist.

i give one example to dispute this assumption of greed = good for consumers...
the tobacco industry
these folks have been making a killing by killing people, and they no longer even lie about it...
if a handful of companies control your food supply and it happens to lets say cause infertility or decreae your intelligence quotient, what can you choose to do with their strangle-hold on your stomach.
in regards to, "that is why government regulatory bodies exist"...
isn't it exactly these bodies, their laws, and their functions that are attacked by ftas?
ironic huh?

faster

Joined: 03 Sep 2006

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject:

Have we found out about pharmaceuticals yet? This, I think, is where average Koreans stand to lose the most.

jhaelin

Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject:

faster wrote:

Have we found out about pharmaceuticals yet? This, I think, is where average Koreans stand to lose the most.

Quote:

As the government agreed to give up its drug price-optimization plans under the national healthcare system, while at the same time extending the patent period on innovative drugs, it will end up increasing medical costs to individuals by 1 trillion won over the next five years," said Woo Seok-gyun, an official of the Korean Federation of Medical Groups for Health Rights.

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/200763.html

Quote:

Opening the market for pharmaceuticals poses another problem. With U.S. pharmaceutical firms looking to sell its high-priced drugs in the local market, there are worries that the country will be forced to restructure its national health insurance system that relies on cost control of prescription drugs.

Under the deal, the Korean government will deny a local pharmaceutical company the license to sell generic drugs should the U.S. company that produced the original drug file a lawsuit over patent infringement.

Currently, Korean firms were allowed to produce generic drugs after the patent right of the original drugs expires.

However, considering that most Korean companies had been filing for the license to sell generic drugs before the patent deadline to fast-track its market release, critics argue that the new deal has the same effect of extending the patent rights of U.S. drug companies.

``It will be a big blow to Korean companies that rely much of the revenue on the sales of generic drugs, and also threaten the government�s ability to control the prices,�� said Cho Kyong-ae, who heads the civic group Health Right Network.

http://www.bilaterals.org/article.php3?id_article=7742

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