Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Binch Lover]

I just started at an elementary public school last month. Classes are generally going fine with the glaring exception of 2nd grade. I have two 2nd grade classes and both are horribly disciplined. They don't listen, get out of their seats... It's practically impossible to teach anything to them.

It's a very small school (around 300 students) so I don't have a real co-teacher, just one teacher who's been assigned to look after general issues. That means I lead the class with the homeroom teacher just there for translation and discipline. It doesn't seem to be an issue with the other grades (including 1st) who are all good.

Today was a complete waste of time with kids just not listening. It makes for a bad atmosphere because I get frustrated and the kids get bored. I don't want to shout at them and I've been told not to take charge of discipline so I'm in a bind. Any suggestions, tips etc.? Obviously, I'm going to talk to the 2nd grade teachers tomorrow but I don't want to make them lose face by calling them bad teachers which would make things worse.

[Alyallen]

I'm a bit confused. You aren't in charge of discipline. So who exactly is? If it's the homeroom teacher's duty, then you definitely have to talk to the home room teachers.

I'm a big fan of punishing everyone. Tell them (and have the home room teacher translate) the key terms that they need to behave in your class.

My students know such standards such as:

Be quiet.
Stand up.
Sit down.
Pay attention.

Those are the essentials and I spent a class period explaining it. The reason is that then you can be sure that they understand what you are saying and can be punished (or have them punished) as you see fit.

The main thing that I do is if people are talking and not paying attention. I make them all stand up. Once they stop talking, let them sit down. The minute they start talking again. You make them stand up again. After 5 or 6 times, they start to get pissed...not at you but at each other.

Divide and conquer...It's a glorious thing! Best of luck!

[hubba bubba]

Unacceptable. You defniately need a coteacher for first and second grade. There may even be a law about it.

[inverse_narcissus]

I work in a public school where half of my students (in this case, 3rd grade boys) tend towards restlessness and apathy. I decided to use the carrot-and-stick approach (with chocolates and a water pistol) a couple of weeks ago and it's beginning to bear fruit. It's worth thinking about.

Oh, and I might add that my job would be impossible without my co-teacher, so I think you should definitely look into it. Hubba Bubba's right: it may be in your contract. (it was in mine)

[cmr]

I have a similar situation to yours, except that my school is even smaller than yours. I don't have a co-teacher, only the homeroom teachers come in with the students. At least, they all do this year... finally. The oldest teachers are gone and the younger ones (they're not young, though) do a much better job. However, I have some classes in the afternoon during which there is a Korean volunteer with me instead of the homeroom teachers because those are extra classes and the Korean teachers didn't want to teach more than they are supposed to. I can tell you that I see a huge difference between teaching with a homeroom teacher in my class and teaching with someone else, in this case the volunteer, who is a student's mother. She's not the problem, though; she's just not the students' teacher and I think that's how they see her.

The second graders are my worst students too. They're not terrible, but they're the ones I enjoy the least teaching.

Since you wrote that you "lead the class with the homeroom teacher just there for translation and discipline", it seems pretty clear to me that the homeroom teacher doesn't do much to help you. I understand your frustration and your effort trying to avoid yelling. Yelling might work for a few minutes, but it won't really improve the situation and it won't make you feel any better in the long run. I know; I tried last year.

Since you wrote that you're going to talk to the 2nd grade teachers, I think you already found a great solution... depending on the teachers. Don't worry about them losing face; you don't have to say they are bad teachers (even if they were) just remind them that you are not the one in charge of discipline but they are. You could also ask them what it is that you are allowed to do to maintain discipline.

If you can't remind them that they have a job to do in your class (discipline) for any reason or if they seem to "forget" whenever you're teaching, you could simply send them the bad kids next time you're teaching with them in your classroom. However, I think it'd be better if you learned how to deal with the kids yourself. That way, Korean teachers being there or not, the students would see you as "their" teacher.

If they truly are bad teachers and couldn't care less what happens to you (I have an old fart like that last year) then you have to act and forget about teaching much English for a period of two and focus on discipline. Make a few rules, make sure the students know them, be consistent and reinforce your rules.

Here is what I usually do. After telling my students to be quiet, sit down, look at me, ... a few times (some people are more/less patient... and some days I am too), I usually tell them to stand up and push their chairs. If they are good, then can sit down again after a minute or two. Later, if they are annoying again, then they have to stand up with their hands up for 1 to 5 minutes, depending on how bad the kid was. It works well with 99% of the kids, but there's that 1% that I wish I could tape to a chair with a roll of ducttape... but I don't, for obvious reasons... hopefully it's obvious!

When there are too many young ones not paying attention, make them do something physical for a change. It will grab their attention and use some of their energy. They migh find the class more interesting as well. You could tell them to stand up, sit down, then sit down again and laugh at the kids who stood up after you repeated to sit down. You can tell kids to touch their eyes, nose, ears, ... while you touch other body parts. It's fun, kids get to learn/review/practice vocabulary, and they get to laugh at themselves or others when they make mistakes. I think the key is to make it fun.

Sometimes, I will simply tell students to stand up and I'll make them jump up and down for 10 seconds. That's when they seem a bit sleepy.

Other times, I'll make them practice "point to the ___". For example, point to the clock, point to the TV, point to the pretty girl (boys get shy), point to the bad boy (students don't know which one to choose), point to the (something they don't know), point to the (something that's not even in the classroom). They can learn/review vocabulary, have fun, pay attention to you and at least you don't have to get angry.

Of course, it doesn't always work the way I wish it did, nothing's perfect, no one's perfect and God knows I'm far from it. At least, if you can find a way to deal with your students without having to punish them all the time, I think it'd be for the best for both the students and you.

At any rate, good luck!

[AwesomeA]

I feel ya, good luck!!!

[aphong420]

I personally like verbal abuse or public humiliation. Make them stand in front of the class and sing San Toki or Adi-dang (however you spell those) and that'll shut them up ... at least for the next week or so.

[rawiri]

I was in your exact position about 9 months ago, believe me when i tell you that you are at a crossroads right now! Here's how to sort the lovable little tykes out

1- Have all classes line up with their books and pencils outside your class and greet them all individually as they come in.

2-Draw up a seating plan with all the kids names spelt phonetically if you can't read korean yet.

3-seperate the trouble makers, if need be seat the boys next to girls as the girls rarely if ever play up.

4- Be a hard ass! Don't even smile at them for the next couple of weeks and let them know there will be repurcussions if they choose not to do the assigned work.

5- Draw up a big list of class rules and go through it with the kids so they understand them, i.e, no hitting, shouting, throwing, cellphones, eating etc.

6-reward positive behaviour and punish negative, but always try to be consistent.

Thats about it, i teach about half my classes without a coteacher and have come to a nice understanding with the little buggers, you will be surprised how quickly they catch on to your teaching style so long as you are consistent.

[ttompatz]

[Scouse Mouse]

With my classes I am getting stricter with each one. I don't mind a little noise as it keeps the kids interested and lets them have fun, but in every class there are consistent trouble makers...

First lesson with class, tell them to be quiet and glare at the nuisances.

Second class anybody that doesn't shut up when told to gets to stand with their hands in the air. I usually keep them up until the end of the activity that they have disrupted and that can be as long as 10 minutes...

Third class I do the hand thing again and if that doesn't fix themn for the lesson they get sent outside (where I can see them) and have to hold their hands up.


I am in an all boys middle school and the "english zone" is next door to the principals office. He is a good guy and likes to come chat with me a lot. Often he will come and watch my class for a few minutes. If a kid is outside with his hands in the air and the principal sees him (as he always does) then the little sheet won't be messing around in my class again

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Binch Lover]

Thanks for all the advice. I haven't got round to talking to the teachers about it, but I'll definitely do it tomorrow.

I think a few people misunderstood the situation. I always have a Korean teacher in the room with me but they are the kids' homeroom teacher, not a designated English co-teacher. Therefore, they take a more or less active role depending on their personality and/or interest in English. There is one second grade teacher who is brand new to teaching and obviously hasn't worked out how to discipline her class. They don't listen to her at all. I can see her getting frustrated and I feel sorry for her, but I reckon I could do a better job than her if I was allowed.

I tried doing a class spelling out the rules and they understood them, but they just don't seem to be interested at all. I don't think it's me since I don't have that problem with any other grade, nor did I at my last school (hagwon). I've tried the super strict mode too, but I find it just creates an even worse atmosphere in the classroom. I guess I just need to come up with some games and activities that aren't going to create total chaos but will keep their attention.

[nautilus]

I have a nice big classroom so sending the offendor to stand on his own at the back is very effective, he may as well have been airlifted to Mars.

[phic11]

I have no problems and also teach elementary school. My coteacher bangs on the desk and the students snap to attention. You must establish discipline to teach effectively. If a student really miseberhave, walks around etc. Toss him out alone in the hallway for 5 minutes alone. He will come back all sorry.