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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: Superbly Disappointed with British Marines and Sailors |
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I'm highly disappointed with them for the way they reacted.
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| ROYAL MARINE BASE CHIVENOR, England - British sailors and marines freed by Iran said Friday they were blindfolded, isolated in cold stone cells and tricked into fearing execution while being coerced into falsely saying they had entered Iranian waters. |
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Appearing a day after being flown home to reunions with their families, the eight sailors and seven marines reported undergoing constant psychological pressure and being threatened with seven years in prison if they did not say they intruded into Iranian waters.
They said their captors also lined them up against a wall one night to the ominous sound of weapons cocking behind their heads.
"At some points I did have fears that we would not survive," Operator Maintainer Arthur Batchelor, 20, the youngest sailor among the captives, told The Associated Press in an interview.
Speaking at the news conference with five colleagues, the boat team's commander, Royal Navy Lt. Felix Carman, said the prisoners were harshly interrogated during 13 days in custody and slept in stone cells on piles of blankets.
"All of us were kept in isolation. We were interrogated most nights and presented with two options: If we admitted that we'd strayed, we'd be on a plane to (Britain) pretty soon. If we didn't, we faced up to seven years in prison," he said.
Carman, who was one of the captives who appeared in Iranian videos seeming to admit being in Iran's waters, disavowed his earlier comment.
"Let me make this clear � irrespective of what was said in the past � when we were detained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard we were inside internationally recognized Iraqi territorial waters," he said.
Royal Marine Joe Tindell said he came to believe one of his colleagues had been executed on the second day of their ordeal.
The 21-year-old said the crew had believed they were being taken to the British Embassy in Tehran to be released, but were instead dumped in a holding facility.
"We had a blindfold and plastic cuffs, hands behind our backs, heads against the wall. ... There were weapons cocking," Tindell told British Broadcasting Corp. radio. "Someone said, I quote: 'Lads, lads, I think we're going to get executed.' ... Someone was sick and as far as I was concerned he had just had his throat cut."
Royal Marine Capt. Chris Air said the crew, operating in two inflatable boats in the Persian Gulf on March 23 checking vessels for smuggled goods, was confronted by two Revolutionary Guard boats.
"They rammed our boats and trained their heavy machine guns, RPGs and weapons on us. Another six boats were closing in on us," Air said.
He said the team quickly decided that a gunbattle would risk a major escalation of tensions with Iran and that they were too lightly armed to resist anyway.
"From the outset it was very apparent that fighting back was simply not an option," Air said. "Had we chosen to do so, then many of us would not be standing here today. Of that I have no doubt." |
It looks to me British military is recruiting buncha flower children who don't want to fight and know nothing about duty, honor, and country.... 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070407/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_britain |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Discretion is the better part of valour. Of course, armchair generals champing at the bit to watch Iranians get killed probably won't agree. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Slow down with the spot the coward stick you're waving around.
It's difficult to say how these people were coerced into doing what they did. At least they survived to fight another day. I'm more disappointed about how they were taken away in the first place, in that they were left unprotected.
Anyway I'd rather have a buncha flower children than a bunch of dead Rambos. They did their duty. |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| Discretion is the better part of valour. Of course, armchair generals champing at the bit to start killing Iranians probably won't agree. |
Some may call it disgrace. Now, all Iranians and terroist states will think Britons have no balls. This ordeal definately made the GB a laughing stock among super powers. Meow~~~ |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ChuckECheese wrote: |
| This ordeal definately made the GB a laughing stock among super powers. Meow~~~ |
The US must be happy to have some company for a change.
But if you think it better that all 15 were now dead and the UK and Iran were so much closer to war, then good for you.
Last edited by gang ah jee on Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| An embarrassment yes. But the only alternative I see would have been 15 dead sailors and another premise for a middle east war. |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| An embarrassment yes. But the only alternative I see would have been 15 dead sailors and another premise for a middle east war. |
If you're so afraid of war that you refuse to fight when fight is brought upon you, people should not be in the military. Especially the leader. In my opinion, the boat commander should be fired.
I don't know the details of the situation which lead to boat ramming and being taken prisoner so I can overlook it.
However, what happened to the Geneva convention: Name, Rank, and you're service number?
You should spill your guts on enemies demand now, huh? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt any of that entire crew would survive 2 weeks in Korea let alone in Iran. "Mind games!!" Isolation!!" woohoo.
They allowed themselves to be taken captive. They should be grateful then that they were released instead of spitting bile the moment their plane touched down back home. "Psychological pressure" cry me a river. They had it good.
Still I suppose the "we heard guns being c o c k e d behind us" is enough to write a bestseller for the shelves of WHsmith. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ChuckECheese wrote: |
| gang ah jee wrote: |
| Discretion is the better part of valour. Of course, armchair generals champing at the bit to start killing Iranians probably won't agree. |
Some may call it disgrace. Now, all Iranians and terroist states will think Britons have no balls. This ordeal definately made the GB a laughing stock among super powers. Meow~~~ |
Initially, the British could have fought at sea, but they were grossly outnumbered by the Iranians. They also said if they did fight back, they knew it would probably push Britain to go to war against Iran. In that case, Britain would definitely feel pressured to go to war. There was nothing to be gained with the British servicemen getting executed. They didn't want to take the chance. Of course, if the Iranians did kill them, it would force the U.S. and Britain to attack Iran, and the Iranians knew that. Iran needs to start feeling more of the heat after this. The gift is bogus. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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ChuckE said he has a "double size ass" in a thread in the General forum yesterday, which, although unsurprising, does mean he has no opinion.
In any case, even if he wasn't disgustingly overweight and by extention not entitled to the same rights and privileges as actual people, he might be better turning his attention to the 3260 dead Americans at the hands of a bunch of Iraqi peasants, despite their country spending more on its military than the next 15 countries combined. That's what I call an embarrassment.
So, if you wanna take cheap shots at the Brits, (a) lose some of that Yanky flab which sadly will mean cutting out your nation's beloved cheeseburger and freedom fries and (b) change nationality to one world renowned for toughness. North Vietnamese perhaps? |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
ChuckE said he has a "double size ass" in a thread in the General forum yesterday, which, although unsurprising, does mean he has no opinion.
Yeah, comparing people ass size and their opinion is a good way to measure your brain size and your interest and love for my ass.
In any case, even if he wasn't disgustingly overweight and by extention not entitled to the same rights and privileges as actual people, he might be better turning his attention to the 3260 dead Americans at the hands of a bunch of Iraqi peasants, despite their country spending more on its military than the next 15 countries combined. That's what I call an embarrassment.
I wouldn't call that an embarrassment. I call that having a set of balls to kick some asses. It's cowardly for insurgents to kill civilians. It's internal Iraqi problem when it comes to sectarian killings. It's called trying to do the right thing for many reasons.
So, if you wanna take cheap shots at the Brits, (a) lose some of that Yanky flab which sadly will mean cutting out your nation's beloved cheeseburger and freedom fries and (b) change nationality to one world renowned for toughness. North Vietnamese perhaps?
If you think I'm taking a cheap shot at our little sister country the GB so be it. I'm just critisizing the actions of the GB marines and sailors.
And as for the idiotic childish comment, a nice piece of work. You'll do well if you were serving in the GB navy or marines. |
Last edited by ChuckECheese on Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| Discretion is the better part of valour. Of course, armchair generals champing at the bit to watch Iranians get killed probably won't agree. |
Actual commanding officers in the US armed forces would not agree with you
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In a dramatic illustration of the different postures adopted by British and US forces working together in Iraq, Lt-Cdr Erik Horner - who has been working alongside the task force to which the 15 captured Britons belonged - said he was "surprised" the British marines and sailors had not been more aggressive.
Asked by The Independent whether the men under his command would have fired on the Iranians, he said: "Agreed. Yes. I don't want to second-guess the British after the fact but our rules of engagement allow a little more latitude. Our boarding team's training is a little bit more towards self-preservation."
The executive officer - second-in-command on USS Underwood, the frigate working in the British-controlled task force with HMS Cornwall - said: " The unique US Navy rules of engagement say we not only have a right to self-defence but also an obligation to self-defence. They [the British] had every right in my mind and every justification to defend themselves rather than allow themselves to be taken. Our reaction was, 'Why didn't your guys defend themselves?'"
His comments came as it was reported British intelligence had been warned by the CIA that Iran would seek revenge for the detention of five suspected Iranian intelligence officers in Iraq two months ago but refused to raise threat levels in line with their US counterparts. The capture of the eight sailors and seven marines - including one young mother - will undoubtedly renew accusations that Britain's determination to maintain a friendly face in the region has left its troops frequently under protected. |
OTOH, I would not place the blame on the soldiers themselves. They seem to have been following their country's rules of engagement. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| double size ass wrote: |
I wouldn't call that an embarrassment. I call that having a set of balls to kick some asses. It's cowardly for insurgents to kill civilians. It's internal Iraqi problem when it comes to sectarian killings. It's called trying to do the right thing for many reasons.
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Stop talking Jibberish.
I was talking about the 3260 dead US soldiers in Iraq and the general Americans-are-getting-their-oversized-botties-spanked-yet-again feeling in that conflict. In 20 years, when the world's superpower will be China, when we look back on America's glorious reign as superpower, we will note two embarrassing defeats to what ought to be spectacularly inferior opposition. That's why it's a little difficult to accept the fetid mewlings such as This ordeal definately made the GB a laughing stock among super powers from oxygen thieves like you.
Anyway, I've got a good one fo yo ass: What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush had a plan to get out of Vietnam. |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| double size ass wrote: |
I wouldn't call that an embarrassment. I call that having a set of balls to kick some asses. It's cowardly for insurgents to kill civilians. It's internal Iraqi problem when it comes to sectarian killings. It's called trying to do the right thing for many reasons.
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Stop talking Jibberish.
I was talking about the 3260 dead US soldiers in Iraq and the general Americans-are-getting-their-oversized-botties-spanked-yet-again feeling in that conflict. In 20 years, when the world's superpower will be China, when we look back on America's glorious reign as superpower, we will note two embarrassing defeats to what ought to be spectacularly inferior opposition. That's why it's a little difficult to accept the fetid mewlings such as This ordeal definately made the GB a laughing stock among super powers from oxygen thieves like you.
Anyway, I've got a good one fo yo ass: What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush had a plan to get out of Vietnam. |
LOL 
You're a f*ckin' joke! It's a good thing you're not a comedian.
Next time I recommend them to surrender by waving a white flag. Maybe they'll get treated alot better without isolation, verbal threats, teasing, etc. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| double size ass wrote: |
I wouldn't call that an embarrassment. I call that having a set of balls to kick some asses. It's cowardly for insurgents to kill civilians. It's internal Iraqi problem when it comes to sectarian killings. It's called trying to do the right thing for many reasons.
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Stop talking Jibberish.
I was talking about the 3260 dead US soldiers in Iraq and the general Americans-are-getting-their-oversized-botties-spanked-yet-again feeling in that conflict. In 20 years, when the world's superpower will be China, when we look back on America's glorious reign as superpower, we will note two embarrassing defeats to what ought to be spectacularly inferior opposition. That's why it's a little difficult to accept the fetid mewlings such as This ordeal definately made the GB a laughing stock among super powers from oxygen thieves like you.
Anyway, I've got a good one fo yo ass: What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush had a plan to get out of Vietnam. |
Let it go. We all know that if ChuckECheese were among the people captured by the Iranians he'd do just what they told him to do. Easy to talk tough when you're behind a computer. Harder to do when you have 100 fanatics pointing machine guns at you. |
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