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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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Although I consider myself a Buddhist, I've never been quite sure how to wrap my head around the idea of reincarnation...now an interesting new study brings some insight on memory and the perception of reincarnation:
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Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors
Melinda Wenner
Special to LiveScience
LiveScience.com
Fri Apr 6, 9:25 AM ET
People who believe they have lived past lives as, say, Indian princesses or battlefield commanders are more likely to make certain types of memory errors, according to a new study. The propensity to make these mistakes could, in part, explain why people cling to implausible reincarnation claims in the first place.
Researchers recruited people who, after undergoing hypnotic therapy, had come to believe that they had past lives. Subjects were asked to read aloud a list of 40 non-famous names, and then, after a two-hour wait, told that they were going to see a list consisting of three types of names: non-famous names they had already seen (from the earlier list), famous names, and names of non-famous people that they had not previously seen. Their task was to identify which names were famous.
The researchers found that, compared to control subjects who dismissed the idea of reincarnation, past-life believers were almost twice as likely to misidentify names. In particular, their tendency was to wrongly identify as famous the non-famous names they had seen in the first task. This kind of error, called a source-monitoring error, indicates that a person has difficulty recognizing where a memory came from.
Power of suggestion
People who are likely to make these kinds of errors might end up convincing themselves of things that aren�t true, said lead researcher Maarten Peters of Maastricht University in The Netherlands. When people who are prone to making these mistakes undergo hypnosis and are repeatedly asked to talk about a potential idea�like a past life�they might, as they grow more familiar with it, eventually convert the idea into a full-blown false memory.
This is because they can�t distinguish between things that have really happened and things that have been suggested to them, Peters told LiveScience. Past life memories are not the only type of implausible memories that have been studied in this manner. Richard McNally, a clinical psychologist at Harvard University, has found that self-proclaimed alien abductees are also twice as likely to commit source monitoring errors.
Creative minds
As for what might make people more prone to committing such errors to begin with, McNally says that it could be the byproduct of especially vivid imagery skills. He has found that people who commonly make source-monitoring errors respond to and imagine experiences more strongly than the average person, and they also tend to be more creative.
�It might be harder to discriminate between a vivid image that you�d generated yourself and the memory of a perception of something you actually saw,� he said in a telephone interview. Peters also found in his study, detailed in the March issue of Consciousness and Cognition, that people with implausible memories are also more likely to be depressed and to experience sleep problems, and this could also make them more prone to memory mistakes.
And once people make this kind of mistake, they might be inclined to stick to their guns for spiritual reasons, McNally said. �It may be a variant expression of certain religious impulses,� he said. �We suspect that this might be kind of a psychological buffering mechanism against the fear of death.�
(Now waiiiiit a minute, Mr. McNally. Arguably, ALL religious belief systems might be a kind of psychological buffering mechanism against the fear of death - MOS)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070406/sc_livescience/beliefinreincarnationtiedtomemoryerrors |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Past lives are bogus. Everytime someone says they were somebody in a past life its usually always somebody famous or great. What, do regular people not get reincarnated? People who believe this are mindless flakes. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
Although I consider myself a Buddhist, I've never been quite sure how to wrap my head around the idea of reincarnation...now an interesting new study brings some insight on memory and the perception of reincarnation:
| Quote: |
Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors
Melinda Wenner
Special to LiveScience
LiveScience.com
Fri Apr 6, 9:25 AM ET
People who believe they have lived past lives as, say, Indian princesses or battlefield commanders are more likely to make certain types of memory errors, according to a new study. The propensity to make these mistakes could, in part, explain why people cling to implausible reincarnation claims in the first place.
Researchers recruited people who, after undergoing hypnotic therapy, had come to believe that they had past lives. Subjects were asked to read aloud a list of 40 non-famous names, and then, after a two-hour wait, told that they were going to see a list consisting of three types of names: non-famous names they had already seen (from the earlier list), famous names, and names of non-famous people that they had not previously seen. Their task was to identify which names were famous.
The researchers found that, compared to control subjects who dismissed the idea of reincarnation, past-life believers were almost twice as likely to misidentify names. In particular, their tendency was to wrongly identify as famous the non-famous names they had seen in the first task. This kind of error, called a source-monitoring error, indicates that a person has difficulty recognizing where a memory came from.
Power of suggestion
People who are likely to make these kinds of errors might end up convincing themselves of things that aren�t true, said lead researcher Maarten Peters of Maastricht University in The Netherlands. When people who are prone to making these mistakes undergo hypnosis and are repeatedly asked to talk about a potential idea�like a past life�they might, as they grow more familiar with it, eventually convert the idea into a full-blown false memory.
This is because they can�t distinguish between things that have really happened and things that have been suggested to them, Peters told LiveScience. Past life memories are not the only type of implausible memories that have been studied in this manner. Richard McNally, a clinical psychologist at Harvard University, has found that self-proclaimed alien abductees are also twice as likely to commit source monitoring errors.
Creative minds
As for what might make people more prone to committing such errors to begin with, McNally says that it could be the byproduct of especially vivid imagery skills. He has found that people who commonly make source-monitoring errors respond to and imagine experiences more strongly than the average person, and they also tend to be more creative.
�It might be harder to discriminate between a vivid image that you�d generated yourself and the memory of a perception of something you actually saw,� he said in a telephone interview. Peters also found in his study, detailed in the March issue of Consciousness and Cognition, that people with implausible memories are also more likely to be depressed and to experience sleep problems, and this could also make them more prone to memory mistakes.
And once people make this kind of mistake, they might be inclined to stick to their guns for spiritual reasons, McNally said. �It may be a variant expression of certain religious impulses,� he said. �We suspect that this might be kind of a psychological buffering mechanism against the fear of death.�
(Now waiiiiit a minute, Mr. McNally. Arguably, ALL religious belief systems might be a kind of psychological buffering mechanism against the fear of death - MOS)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070406/sc_livescience/beliefinreincarnationtiedtomemoryerrors |
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This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder, some people who are able to give details of previous lives or speak languages they've never learned in this life? Two types of people never cease to amaze me: nonbelievers who allow their bias to effect their research, and believers who try to prove their belief.
Peace |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder,
1. some people who are able to give details of previous lives or
2.speak languages they've never learned in this life?
Peace |
1. If the person they were supposed to be was famous they studied up. if it was somebody regular, they made up some good lies.
2. Who says they never learned them? |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Manner of Speaking
| Quote: |
| Although I consider myself a Buddhist, I've never been quite sure how to wrap my head around the idea of reincarnation... |
According to the book 'Buddha' by Karen Armstrong, the belief in reincarnation wasn't part of the original teachings of buddhism. She said that it became incorporated latter as more people 'converted' to buddhism from other religions that believed in it. This was because Buddhism was tolerant of other beliefs and did not automatically require it's adherents to jettison previous beliefs. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder, some people who are able to give details of previous lives or speak languages they've never learned in this life?
Peace |
Wow I'd like to see evidence of this happening. But wait here it is....
Hoover the f*cking talking seal! (please, please click on the mp3 file and listen). |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder, some people who are able to give details of previous lives or speak languages they've never learned in this life? Two types of people never cease to amaze me: nonbelievers who allow their bias to effect their research, and believers who try to prove their belief.
Peace |
Actually, although the research study itself is interesting, I don't think the reporter has done a very good job of reporting it. She exhibits an obvious bias against the idea of reincarnation in the first place, associating it with alien abduction believers and people who believe they used to be Egyptian princesses, and seems to have totally skirted the religious aspect or implications of the study. Note the use of the word "implausible" in the last sentence of the first paragraph. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Grimalkin wrote: |
Manner of Speaking
| Quote: |
| Although I consider myself a Buddhist, I've never been quite sure how to wrap my head around the idea of reincarnation... |
According to the book 'Buddha' by Karen Armstrong, the belief in reincarnation wasn't part of the original teachings of buddhism. She said that it became incorporated latter as more people 'converted' to buddhism from other religions that believed in it. This was because Buddhism was tolerant of other beliefs and did not automatically require it's adherents to jettison previous beliefs. |
Interesting! To be honest I've also always been a little ambivalent about all the "extra" gods, demons, bhodisattvas, etc., that seem to be part of the 'baggage' of Buddhism. Assuming that the way to Enlightenment is through the Eightfold Path...arguably, the existence or nonexistence of all these extra spirits is inconsequential. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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This is incredible! And it's all because the seal has a bad memory! |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Hmmm. Says the seal died in 1985. Is there anybody here born that year who really likes fish? Clap twice for "yes." |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Grimalkin wrote: |
Manner of Speaking
| Quote: |
| Although I consider myself a Buddhist, I've never been quite sure how to wrap my head around the idea of reincarnation... |
According to the book 'Buddha' by Karen Armstrong, the belief in reincarnation wasn't part of the original teachings of buddhism. She said that it became incorporated latter as more people 'converted' to buddhism from other religions that believed in it. This was because Buddhism was tolerant of other beliefs and did not automatically require it's adherents to jettison previous beliefs. |
Interesting! To be honest I've also always been a little ambivalent about all the "extra" gods, demons, bhodisattvas, etc., that seem to be part of the 'baggage' of Buddhism. Assuming that the way to Enlightenment is through the Eightfold Path...arguably, the existence or nonexistence of all these extra spirits is inconsequential. |
Then I definitely recommend you read Karen Armstrong's book. She explains all that stuff very well. I can't quite remember all the details as it's been a few years now but she did say that some of it was to do with analogies, for instance when a demon appears to Buddha that represents an internal struggle between his better and worse nature (akin I suppose to when we talk about confronting our own demons).
I also remember she said that Buddha never addressed the issue of life after death, he didn't feel it was relevant.
She's written on all the major world religions and is very knowledgeable. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| jinju wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder,
1. some people who are able to give details of previous lives or
2.speak languages they've never learned in this life?
Peace |
1. If the person they were supposed to be was famous they studied up. if it was somebody regular, they made up some good lies.
2. Who says they never learned them? |
I'm referring to documented cases in which both of your "answers" have been ruled out. See Dr. Stevenson's [/i]Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation[i] for examples.
Peace
Last edited by seoulunitarian on Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder,
1. some people who are able to give details of previous lives or
2.speak languages they've never learned in this life?
Peace |
1. If the person they were supposed to be was famous they studied up. if it was somebody regular, they made up some good lies.
2. Who says they never learned them? |
I'm referring to documented cases in which both of your "answers" have been ruled out.
Peace |
How do you rule out somebody secretly learning a language so that they could pretend to have been somebody else?Ask me if I speak any other languages, you can trust me. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| jinju wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder,
1. some people who are able to give details of previous lives or
2.speak languages they've never learned in this life?
Peace |
1. If the person they were supposed to be was famous they studied up. if it was somebody regular, they made up some good lies.
2. Who says they never learned them? |
I'm referring to documented cases in which both of your "answers" have been ruled out.
Peace |
How do you rule out somebody secretly learning a language so that they could pretend to have been somebody else?Ask me if I speak any other languages, you can trust me. |
Research.
Peace |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder,
1. some people who are able to give details of previous lives or
2.speak languages they've never learned in this life?
Peace |
1. If the person they were supposed to be was famous they studied up. if it was somebody regular, they made up some good lies.
2. Who says they never learned them? |
I'm referring to documented cases in which both of your "answers" have been ruled out.
Peace |
How do you rule out somebody secretly learning a language so that they could pretend to have been somebody else?Ask me if I speak any other languages, you can trust me. |
Research.
Peace |
Why would I waste my time researching fairy tales? |
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