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Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:47 am    Post subject: Re: re: Reply with quote

seoulunitarian wrote:

This is why I usually do not try to prove spiritual beliefs - as you said, the "proofs" inevitably become circular. I think my proof just misses the circular reasoning label, though, because I believe the research by Dr. Stevenson and others has begun to prove reincarnation as fact.


I hope you can see why those who don't already assume your belief don't find the evidence very compelling.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a scientific study that indicates the power of prayer and devotion - and also indicates that even water has consciousness:

Visual Evidence of the Power of Prayer, Gratitude and Appreciation

Dr. Masaru Emoto, a visionary researcher from Japan received certification from the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine. Subsequently he was introduced to the concept of micro cluster water in the US and Magnetic Resonance Analysis technology. The quest thus began to discover the mystery of water.

Continuing in this stream of awareness, Dr Emoto began to study the impact of altering water by various factors of vibration and consciousness. He studied water that had been altered by music - healing music, classical music, heavy metal music - and so forth.

And the crystalline pictures reveal how water responds to these influences ... into complex arrangements of crystalline beauty. This begins to reveal that water is alive - it is conscious and responds to applied force by a rearrangement of its inner crystalline properties.

Inspired by these revelations, he decided to study the impact of human consciousness on water and its crystalline order.

Through repeatable experiments Dr. Emoto demonstrated that human thoughts and emotions can alter the molecular structure of water. Now, for the first time, there is physical evidence that the power of our thoughts can change the world within and around us.

He found that water that had been consciously altered by the simple imprinting of a word of intent upon the water would change. Water that was imprinted by love, gratitude, and appreciation, responded by the development of complex beauty, and water that was mistreated by negative intentions became disordered and lost its magnificent patterning. In fact, it often took on grotesque forms of resonance.



He experimented first with water from a pure source in Japan. The picture revealed a beautiful crystalline form. (Photo 1) He then did the same thing with water from a nearby polluted river. The result was a muddy, smeared pattern with very little structure. (Photo 2) He then asked a priest from a temple to offer a prayer to the polluted water sample and repeated the experiment out of curiosity. To his surprise, another beautiful crystalline structure appeared. (Photo 3)



This experiment was repeated many times over with the same result. The researcher then exposed water samples to different types of music. Classical music always reflected beautiful patterns, (photo 4) whereas heavy metal or rock and roll created distorted, formless, smudged images, (photo 5) as if these types of music had destroyed the delicate equilibrium of the molecules. He continued experimenting, this time by writing words on pieces of paper and taping them to a clear glass container to see if anything happened.


He tried using positive words like "Love" and "Thank you" (photo 6) and every time noticed a beautiful and delicate crystalline pattern. He tried "You Make Me Sick. I Will Kill You" (photo 7) and each time observed distorted, frightening, muddied patterns. He even experimented with names like "Gandhi" "Mother Teresa" (photo Cool and "Hitler" (photo 9) and the same kind of results occurred.



After much experimentation, Dr. Emoto discovered that the most powerful combination of thoughts in terms of capacity to transform was that of "Love and Gratitude." (Photo 10)



http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/news/04-07/news1153.htm
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jinju



Joined: 22 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

praying for water LOL what bogus mumbo jumbo...no wonder you people are laughed at
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Jinju's" probably just envious of the photos... Razz
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seoulunitarian



Joined: 06 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: re: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
seoulunitarian wrote:

This is why I usually do not try to prove spiritual beliefs - as you said, the "proofs" inevitably become circular. I think my proof just misses the circular reasoning label, though, because I believe the research by Dr. Stevenson and others has begun to prove reincarnation as fact.


I hope you can see why those who don't already assume your belief don't find the evidence very compelling.


I can, but I truly believe they think the evidence is uncompelling because of their worldview assumptions. Everyone has assumptions, either of a materialistic or spiritual world. These assumptions (including mine) directly relate to our beliefs.

Peace
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: re: Reply with quote

seoulunitarian wrote:



I can, but I truly believe they think the evidence is uncompelling because of their worldview assumptions. Everyone has assumptions, either of a materialistic or spiritual world. These assumptions (including mine) directly relate to our beliefs.


Quantum mechanics is a rather astounding concept. Not an idea scientists readily embraced. However, the experimental evidence compelled belief. Big bang is another one. Belief in steady state was so entrenched that even Einstein didn't believe and he cooked up the cosmological constant although his theory of relativity told him the universe had to be expanding. Again, good evidence compelled belief.

Good evidence can compel belief in reincarnation or ufos or demonic possession even if they do not fit into world views.

Bad evidence is not compelling. That's about the long and the short of it. There is very poor evidence for reincarnation.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
Here's a scientific study that indicates the power of prayer and devotion - and also indicates that even water has consciousness:

Visual Evidence of the Power of Prayer, Gratitude and Appreciation

Dr. Masaru Emoto, a visionary researcher from Japan received certification from the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine. Subsequently he was introduced to the concept of micro cluster water in the US and Magnetic Resonance Analysis technology. The quest thus began to discover the mystery of water.


Wow! He's certainly a scientist of the first order...

I'll await his paper in Nature. The article doesn't even bother to cite which peer reviewed journal his research was published in. Weak. Again, you'd never accept this kind of poor scholarship from an evolutionist. Fallacy: special pleading. It's a nice bit of stage magic and he can probably sell it to David Blaine. If a man bends a spoon and tells you its psychic powers, you'll just simply believe?
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
Here's a scientific study that indicates the power of prayer and devotion - and also indicates that even water has consciousness:

Visual Evidence of the Power of Prayer, Gratitude and Appreciation

Dr. Masaru Emoto, a visionary researcher from Japan received certification from the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine.


Well he must be a real doctor then.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ED209 wrote:
Rteacher wrote:
Here's a scientific study that indicates the power of prayer and devotion - and also indicates that even water has consciousness:

Visual Evidence of the Power of Prayer, Gratitude and Appreciation

Dr. Masaru Emoto, a visionary researcher from Japan received certification from the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine.


Well he must be a real doctor then.


Oh god. Not even close:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto

Quote:
Biography

Emoto graduated from Yokohama Municipal University with courses in International Relations, and in 1992 he received certification as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine from The Open International University for Alternative Medicine in India, an unaccredited institute with minimal academic requirements. [1]


PUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Comments, Rteacher? Please, read that url and understand what it's saying. Okay? If you're just cranking out thousands of ice crystals and picking out the ones you think fit, that's called observer bias. He's offering evidence of nothing. Nothing. "The plural of anecdote is 'anecdotes', not 'data'."
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't prove reincarnation move onto empathic water.
What will the 'whack a mole' do next?
Certainly not accept what anyone like mm2 tells him.
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
The Open International University for Alternative Medicine in India

It's no Stamford.
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Manner of Speaking



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gang ah jee wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
The Open International University for Alternative Medicine in India
It's no Stamford.

Wouldn't you love to see it on a resume, though. Laughing
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=16702

Quote:
There�s no evidence water can understand human speech

I am a scientist/artist with a doctorate in biomedical research who has 17 patents for three-dimensional microscopes, and currently I make art through the microscopes I�ve invented.

They say, "Dr. Emoto has proven that words can change the molecular structure of water, simply by talking to water or labeling bottles of water with good or bad words. He can communicate with water."

As a scientist, I was astonished. It didn�t surprise me that I couldn�t find any scientific experiments he has performed or any peer-reviewed journal articles that have been published describing controlled studies of Emoto�s work. A further search revealed that Emoto�s degree was from the Open International University in India, where an M.D. degree costs $500 and a Ph.D. costs $350, no classes or tests required.

Gary Greenberg


PUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Rteacher, comments?
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
"Jinju's" probably just envious of the photos... Razz
Laughing Touche!
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors Reply with quote

jinju wrote:
seoulunitarian wrote:
This is BS. How do the researchers explain, I wonder,

1. some people who are able to give details of previous lives or
2.speak languages they've never learned in this life?

Peace


1. If the person they were supposed to be was famous they studied up. if it was somebody regular, they made up some good lies.
2. Who says they never learned them?


The study has some flaws with it. It deals with people who have gone through hypnotherapy. The majority of Indians believe in reincarnation without going through such a thing, and they don't deal with trying to find out who they were in the past as some do in the West. The study, in a sense, is lacking. I am frankly skeptical about a past life. However, what about the famous Edgar Cayce who would say things that we can't explain. In orthodox Christianity, reincarnation is not acceptable, because the Logos or the Word became flesh, and if you believe in Christ you need not live again.
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