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| How should we do it? |
| First Mars, then Moon, then Venus |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| First Moon, then Venus, then Mars |
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19% |
[ 5 ] |
| First Venus, then Moon, then Mars |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
| First Mars, then Venus, then Moon |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| First Venus, then Mars, then Moon |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| First Moon, then Mars, then Venus |
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69% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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Message |
Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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 Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Shouldn't we ask the inhabitants there first? "Earthlings-- There goes the neighborhood!"
Ken:>  |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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The poll's turning out to be pretty interesting. For the record, I chose Moon, then Venus, then Mars.
Reasons why: the Moon doesn't really have much, has no atmosphere and a weird day and night cycle, but you really can't beat a 3-day travel time and a launch window whenever you like, compared to the other two with launch windows every year and a half and more, along with a few months travel time.
#2 is Venus because of how much closer it is than Mars (see link here), the gravity is almost the same, as well as air pressure and temperature just about the same as Earth at 52km in the air along with the fact that breathable air floats as does helium does on Earth, making floating at that altitude effortless.
#3 is Mars because even though it's certainly a good destination, it's not quite as possible as the other two (IMO) because of the longer travel time, less frequent launch windows, less solar power, low air pressure, less regular orbit than Venus, etc. Not too bad but I think Mars looks more ideal than it actually is whereas Venus has the opposite problem because people are always thinking about the surface where it's hellish. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| We've given up on the center of our hollow Earth? |
That one is populated with creatures called Magma, quit lethal for us humans, luckily they have problems with our relative coldness. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
| We've given up on the center of our hollow Earth? |
That one is populated with creatures called Magma, quit lethal for us humans, luckily they have problems with our relative coldness. |
I'll kick Magma's ass, I will. They ain't stopping me, and after that, I will convert them to Christianity 
But there is also underwater too... And I have seen some reports on terraforming Mars, they are really interesting and very possible even today (not financially though, as it would take generations for these ideas to come to fruit). |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
The poll's turning out to be pretty interesting. For the record, I chose Moon, then Venus, then Mars.
Reasons why: the Moon doesn't really have much, has no atmosphere and a weird day and night cycle, but you really can't beat a 3-day travel time and a launch window whenever you like, compared to the other two with launch windows every year and a half and more, along with a few months travel time.
#2 is Venus because of how much closer it is than Mars (see link here), the gravity is almost the same, as well as air pressure and temperature just about the same as Earth at 52km in the air along with the fact that breathable air floats as does helium does on Earth, making floating at that altitude effortless.
#3 is Mars because even though it's certainly a good destination, it's not quite as possible as the other two (IMO) because of the longer travel time, less frequent launch windows, less solar power, low air pressure, less regular orbit than Venus, etc. Not too bad but I think Mars looks more ideal than it actually is whereas Venus has the opposite problem because people are always thinking about the surface where it's hellish. |
So how would our Cloud City stay aloft? Would it require the constant use of engines, as with helicopters? Or is Venus' atmosphere dense enough that, if built properly, and containing sufficiently-large pockets of a light gas like helium, a city could "float" like a boat? |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Afghanistan
iraq
then Iran.  |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
The poll's turning out to be pretty interesting. For the record, I chose Moon, then Venus, then Mars.
Reasons why: the Moon doesn't really have much, has no atmosphere and a weird day and night cycle, but you really can't beat a 3-day travel time and a launch window whenever you like, compared to the other two with launch windows every year and a half and more, along with a few months travel time.
#2 is Venus because of how much closer it is than Mars (see link here), the gravity is almost the same, as well as air pressure and temperature just about the same as Earth at 52km in the air along with the fact that breathable air floats as does helium does on Earth, making floating at that altitude effortless.
#3 is Mars because even though it's certainly a good destination, it's not quite as possible as the other two (IMO) because of the longer travel time, less frequent launch windows, less solar power, low air pressure, less regular orbit than Venus, etc. Not too bad but I think Mars looks more ideal than it actually is whereas Venus has the opposite problem because people are always thinking about the surface where it's hellish. |
So how would our Cloud City stay aloft? Would it require the constant use of engines, as with helicopters? Or is Venus' atmosphere dense enough that, if built properly, and containing sufficiently-large pockets of a light gas like helium, a city could "float" like a boat? |
Weird, I came here to bump up this thread and I noticed that I never answered this question (I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in another thread later on though that you responded on). Anyway, somebody wrote an editorial on the subject just a few days ago in a MO newspaper, which is better than in no newspaper:
Article
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Could Venus one day support human life?
Venus will be the brightest object in the sky tonight. You can find it by looking slightly north of west and 26 degrees above the horizon at 8:25. The White Planet is still approaching Earth.
As late as the mid-20th century, some scientists speculated that Venus, beneath its opaque cover of cloud, might have a climate not unlike tropical Earth. And some were even willing to speculate that it might be home to exotic forms of life.
But such speculation ended quickly when NASA Mariner flybys and Russian Venera landings revealed that the Venusian surface was arid, desolate, and hot enough to melt lead, more suggestive of Gehenna than of Eden.
The question is no longer whether life exists on Venus; it has become whether life can exist on Venus.
Hope springs eternal � even among scientists � and, more especially, among engineers. Enough hope to turn their answer into a resounding maybe.
The key to initial settlement of Venus is the thickness of its atmosphere.
Thirty-five miles above the planet's surface, that atmosphere is only slightly less dense than Earth's at sea-level, and its temperature just happens to a comfortable 75 degrees Fahrenheit. And, because it consists of heavy carbon dioxide, a mixture of lighter nitrogen and oxygen would be buoyant in it.
From these modest facts, it is only a small engineering leap to cities of Earthlings, floating above the Venusian clouds in giant air-filled balloons, growing their food and powering their technology with brilliant sunlight. Crazy, but not completely crazy.
Settling the Venusian surface will be more difficult.
Carl Sagan once proposed seeding Venusian clouds with bacteria that would eat sulfur and carbon dioxide and release oxygen as waste-good deeds that would both mitigate the greenhouse effect and provide air for humans to breathe. Unfortunately, such microbes would consume water � a lot of water � and Venus has very little.
More modern ideas for colonizing the Venusian surface rely on energy conversion far beyond the capability of current human technology. Their realization is unlikely, but that does not make them uninteresting.
Jon Nance is a professor emeritus at Missouri State University. |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| There are some good science-fiction books around that explore these kind of issues. Ben Bova is one fine example of such an author who has written many books in this genre (see, for example, Colony, Moonbase, Mars). Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy - starting with Red Mars - is also recommended. |
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rockstarsmooth
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: anyang, baybee!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| butlerian wrote: |
| There are some good science-fiction books around that explore these kind of issues. Ben Bova is one fine example of such an author who has written many books in this genre (see, for example, Colony, Moonbase, Mars). Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy - starting with Red Mars - is also recommended. |
i second the mars trilogy. kim stanley robinson has written an excellent series on the colonization and terraforming of mars. he does a fantastic job of the science, but also the political and social aspects as well.
good stuff.
rss
 right now i'm listening to: math and physics club - la la la lisa |
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Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I heard Bush already has plans to mine the moon... real class. |
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Cerebroden
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| umm how bought we work on the ocean first and then maybe in a few generations jump to other rocks. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| cities of Earthlings, floating above the Venusian clouds in giant air-filled balloons, growing their food and powering their technology with brilliant sunlight. Crazy, but not completely crazy |
Wow, sounds like a barrel of laughs. Life in a balloon growing food with hardly any privacy. |
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