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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: Canadians making not so much money... |
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Totally wasn't surprised by this, but it was interesting. Not many Canadians make much money... feels good to know we're making more than the average Joe..
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Let's talk a little bit about what we make. Specifically, how much money are people making out there, and where do you stack up?
All the data here is for the 2004 calendar year, which is the most recent income data available.
Just so you can brace yourself, we'll start with median total income. The median is the mid-point, where half the included population is higher, and half is lower. �Total income� in this case includes income from employment, investment, government transfers, private pensions, registered retirement savings plans and other income. You know. Total. And the median total income for Canadians with an income was�$24,400. If you made more than $24,400 in 2004, congratulations, you were in the top half of income earners.
Now, before you calculate that fully half of Canadians work for less than $12.20 an hour, bear in mind that �total income� will capture part-time employees, after-school student jobs, etc. Those people will pull down the average with a low income that may not be representative of hardship. That being said, the bottom half of total income earners is also populated by people who are out of the work force and living on low incomes provided by pensions and government benefits. Many of those people do indeed have financial hardship.
The median employment income for Canadians in 2004 was $25,400. That's just counting the working folks. The highest median employment income by province was the Northwest Territories by a wide margin ($35,400), followed by the Yukon ($28,300), Ontario ($27,900) and Alberta ($27,500). Newfoundland was the lowest at $17,000.
But let's move back to total income for Canadians, and climb further up the scale to see where the meat is. Let's move all the way up to where about 2/3rds of individuals have lower incomes. In 2004, you were in the top third of incomes if you made more than�are you ready? $35,000.
I know what you're saying. Let's go higher! Okay, let's move up to the top quintile line. At this level of income, 80 percent of people made less than you. The number? Only 19.8 percent of Canadians with an income made $50,000 or more in 2004.
Now, although a bit over 12 percent of individuals had incomes between $50,000 and $75,000, the atmosphere thins out pretty quickly above that. Only 7.6 percent of people had incomes of $75,000 or more in 2004. Only 3.4 percent made $100,000 or more. And by the time we get to the $150,000 or more category, we're down to just 1.3 percent of income recipients.
People with 2004 incomes of $200,000 or more were a rounding error: only 0.7 percent made $200,000 or more. And you can be 99.5 percent sure that any randomly selected Canadian earned less than $250,000.
Those are the stats for individuals. The nice folks at Stats Canada also track the incomes of various family groupings, so we can get an idea of where entire households compare by income. �Couple families� are couples (married or common-law, including same-sex couples) living at the same address, with or without children. No singles or lone parents are included. The median total income from all sources for all members of such families in 2004 was $64,800. Less than a quarter of such households had total incomes of $100,000 or more. And just over 8 percent had incomes of $150,000 or greater.
So, there are the stats, and that's what we make. Now, consider some of the implications of this information. If there were folks who made $50,000 a year and didn't feel like they were making enough to get by (and there are), it would be useful for them to consider that based on 2004 figures, 80 percent of Canadians with an income make less. If their individual income was close to $65,000, that would be enough to push them into the top ten percent of incomes received by Canadians just two years ago. Ninety percent of the 23.4 million people with an income in Canada made less. If they felt they weren't getting by at an income level that's higher than that of the vast majority of the people in one of the richest countries in the history of the world, do they have an income problem? Or is it a problem related to something else, like choices or expectations?. |
Link is here:
http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/savingsdebt/johncaspar/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4633786 |
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confuzed
Joined: 01 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by confuzed on Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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The average canadian pays 25,000$ a year in taxes? You get my vote for the 'poster of the year who obviously got into Korea with a fake degree.'
Last edited by yawarakaijin on Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The average canadian pay 25,000$ a year in taxes? You get my vote for the 'poster of the year who obviously got into Korea with a fake degree.' |
oops...
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| taxes and that health care, medecine and education |
No comments on whether he's right or not. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| The average canadian pays 25,000$ a year in taxes? You get my vote for the 'poster of the year who obviously got into Korea with a fake degree.' |
You do have to add the value of the Medical Services and such.
If a doctors visit cost about 20$, you should add that to the total earnings of an individual if he does not need to pay for it, every time he goes and sees the doctor.
Money isn't everything.
Another example.
How much does a good education cost for one person on average?
I have no idea about prices concerning education, because in my little socialist country education is practically for free, so me spending 24 yeas in a free education system (of relative high quality), and not having to "pay" for it, apart from taxes, should be added to my income relative to other peoples "cost"
In korea if i want to send my kid to a decent foreign school, i'll probaly end up apying 20k$ per year, for the first 15 years .. that amount to 300k$ in a lifetime.
I got that for free.
how do you calculate that in your GDP?
You cannot. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously there are costs in life, in Canada, in any country. I just don't get where he came up with the figure of us paying 25,000$ in taxes every year. I read it again, just in case I have serious reading comprehension issues or something  but it seems to be what he is saying. I had some jobs that barely paid 25,000$ a year so how the hell did I pay 25,000$ in taxes? I seem to remember paying rent, buying food and even having the odd night out once in a while. |
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confuzed
Joined: 01 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by confuzed on Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| So, there are the stats, and that's what we make. Now, consider some of the implications of this information. If there were folks who made $50,000 a year and didn't feel like they were making enough to get by (and there are), it would be useful for them to consider that based on 2004 figures, 80 percent of Canadians with an income make less. If their individual income was close to $65,000, that would be enough to push them into the top ten percent of incomes received by Canadians just two years ago. Ninety percent of the 23.4 million people with an income in Canada made less. If they felt they weren't getting by at an income level that's higher than that of the vast majority of the people in one of the richest countries in the history of the world, do they have an income problem? Or is it a problem related to something else, like choices or expectations?. (my italics - MOS) |
Now that last sentence strikes me as rather strange...the writer is saying that if you make $50k a year or more, you should just shut up and be happy. 
Is it just me, or does anyone else get from this paragraph that Canada is a country with an economy in which the vast majority of its working population are unable to realize their employment and income aspirations? It seems to me that's where the problem lies: despite all our natural resources, levels of education, etc., Canadians live in an economy that maximizes corporate profits rather than job creation or income enhancement. People - 50% of the working population - are stuck at jobs making $25k a year or less because that's all they can get. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| I dont understand why taxes entered the conversation. The article is about incomes. The fact that Canadians pay high taxes makes their low salaries even more pathetic. |
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confuzed
Joined: 01 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by confuzed on Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| I dont understand why taxes entered the conversation. The article is about incomes. The fact that Canadians pay high taxes makes their low salaries even more pathetic. |
Actually, we get very large rebates from the government. Especially if you make under a certain amount of money. They'll tax you according to how much money you make, so the more money, the higher the percentage of tax. I can't remember exactly what the taxes are, but I'm certain that I've paid little or no tax in my life, since I've always filed my income, and it was always low (I was only working part time while going to uni). |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| confuzed wrote: |
| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| The average canadian pays 25,000$ a year in taxes? You get my vote for the 'poster of the year who obviously got into Korea with a fake degree.' |
Hey idiot where did I ever say we paid exactly 25 000 in taxes? Take your contacts off and put back your glasses. Each Canadian family, meaning two salaries sorry I didn't think I had to spell it out for you. Talk about walking into Korea with a fake degree.
Sorry "yawarakaijin" the average FAMILY pays at least $25 000 in taxes which covers education, medicine and healthcare amongst other things, and even if I didn't mention "family" you should be smart enough to know what it would cost you if you happen to break a leg or put your kid through school. If you're dumb enough to evaluate expenditures as opposed to potential savings then that would explain why you never got further then a Bachelor's degree. |
Sorry you stated:
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| and add another $25 000 a year to Canadian tax payers. |
The other poster was right to call for clarification as your sloppy writing leads no one to conclude you're talking about the amount of taxes the average family pays. The singular of payers is not "family". It's payer. Most families are headed by two income earners these days. While they file as one, they have taxes paid individually at source. Indeed, anyone buying anything is a taxpayer. So, it would read to anyone who actually came here on a real degree and is marginally qualified to act as an ESL teacher as you're talking about the tax bill for the average individual taxpayer. Indeed, the original article's thrust was primarily about the individual.
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| Those are the stats for individuals. |
So, again, forgive us for thinking you were actually talking about the main focus of the article. The individual earner.
But gosh, thanks for clearing that up for us. You always add so much clarity to any debate. You're an asset to Dave's and your own students. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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A good read. I was starting to even question my own reading comprehension there for a minute. I still don't get exactly what the poster was trying to say. Is it that a family pays 25,000 per year, the individual? or if you include all the benefits we get from our taxes that you should add 25,000 to our "income". Truly confusing.
The poster is right that I don't have a family but the most I ever remember paying in taxes was about 7,000$ per year. Even if I was married and my wife payed a similar amount that only adds up to 14,000$
No doubt there are canadians who pay that much tax but the article was about the "average" single canadian so I attributed his remarks to such. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
A good read. I was starting to even question my own reading comprehension there for a minute. I still don't get exactly what the poster was trying to say. Is it that a family pays 25,000 per year, the individual? or if you include all the benefits we get from our taxes that you should add 25,000 to our "income". Truly confusing.
The poster is right that I don't have a family but the most I ever remember paying in taxes was about 7,000$ per year. Even if I was married and my wife payed a similar amount that only adds up to 14,000$
No doubt there are canadians who pay that much tax but the article was about the "average" single canadian so I attributed his remarks to such. |
My final year in Canada before I left for Seattle, I paid about $21K in federal/ontario provincial tax. I would imagine if you added other taxes like GST, that would come pretty close to $25K.
Okay so we pay a lot in tax. What do we get for that? Decent public education. Clean, safe streets. Good roads. Medical care could be improved, certainly. Who wants to wait 6 months for a CT scan when you can get one in 3 days in the USA? |
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confuzed
Joined: 01 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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