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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| rocklee wrote: |
Going by facial features alone, it is harder to distinguish out the differences betwen Asians (as with Anglo-Saxons!). I've met a many chinese people who looked Japanese, Korean and Singaporean.
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| Edit: This isn't a foolproof method of course, which is why the Japanese first enacted a law to keep Koreans from taking Japanese names as they feared they could slip into the country under a Japanese name and identity and maybe bring communism with them. |
Was this fully implemented? I thought the Koreans were taught Japanese and given Japanese names (if at least the elite). The Koreans in Japan were essentially naturalised as Japanese where many probably served during the war, but it was the native Koreans who were not easily given full rights to fight as soldiers because they couldn't be trusted. |
I'm not sure how often they used the shibboleth so I'm not sure how effective it would have been. When they first started ruling Korea they enacted a law to make sure that Koreans couldn't take Japanese names but around 20 years later they brought in the 창씨개명 to let them take Japanese names. Koreans also wanted the right to vote (or be elected in Japan, I don't remember which) in Japan since they were a colony but Japanese back home weren't happy about the idea of letting people that didn't have to go to war (since all Japanese had to) which is why they started conscription in Korea too. There was more and more naturalization as time went on of course. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:18 am Post subject: |
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I think this is a legitimate topic for discussion.
I think most of us are aware of the brutality undertaken by Japanese, as well as American and British forces in the Pacific War.
But the role of some Koreans who fought alongside the Japanese is a fascinating topic. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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TheDude
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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This thread was cleaned up to remove the insults and the flame war that had side tracked it.
It is a valid discussion theme now please stick to the theme, avoid insults and flame wars or the thread will just have to be removed.
In short, play nice. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| rocklee wrote: |
Going by facial features alone, it is harder to distinguish out the differences betwen Asians (as with Anglo-Saxons!). I've met a many chinese people who looked Japanese, Korean and Singaporean.
| Quote: |
| Edit: This isn't a foolproof method of course, which is why the Japanese first enacted a law to keep Koreans from taking Japanese names as they feared they could slip into the country under a Japanese name and identity and maybe bring communism with them. |
Was this fully implemented? I thought the Koreans were taught Japanese and given Japanese names (if at least the elite). The Koreans in Japan were essentially naturalised as Japanese where many probably served during the war, but it was the native Koreans who were not easily given full rights to fight as soldiers because they couldn't be trusted. |
I'm not sure how often they used the shibboleth so I'm not sure how effective it would have been. When they first started ruling Korea they enacted a law to make sure that Koreans couldn't take Japanese names but around 20 years later they brought in the 창씨개명 to let them take Japanese names. Koreans also wanted the right to vote (or be elected in Japan, I don't remember which) in Japan since they were a colony but Japanese back home weren't happy about the idea of letting people that didn't have to go to war (since all Japanese had to) which is why they started conscription in Korea too. There was more and more naturalization as time went on of course. |
At one point weren't all Koreans forced to take on Japanese names? |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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If you take away the names, language and minor aspect of their cultures, is anyone willing to bet that Koreans and Japanese were essentially the same just different tribes?
Perhaps the Japanese were a little less traditional as Asians due to their isolated location and diverse communities ranging from Ryukyuan to Ainu (essentially mixes of Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, Aboriginal and Russian). Despite their Japanese names, most early Japanese still retained certain character traits of their origins which could have a bearing on how they lived and participated during the war. There was most certainly a nationalistic and almost barbaric group responsible for most of the atrocities. However such a group was far more difficult to segregate from the rest. To victims, shouldering the responsibilities on the entire nation was sufficient. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| ajgeddes wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| (I can't tell between a Vietmenese or a Malaysian). |
Really? I would think that would have to be the easiest one out of all of them. |
I've never met any, so I have no comparison base  |
Vietnamese can often pass as a Chinese person or sometimes even a Korean person while a Malaysian in general looks similar to a Indonesian or some Filippinos.
Usually, the Vietnamese can be recognized by saying "Motobiee" as you walk by. (Joking) |
The Phillipinos, Malaysians, and Indonesians are to a large extent racially similar and have linguistically similar languages. I believe they are all Malay.
The Vietnamese vary, but there are many Vietnamese who could resemble the Chinese or Koreans. Some also do have that Malay like appearance but not most. Even some Koreans can remind one of some people from the Phillipines or Malay people. They are, after all, quite mixed.
As far as the excuse that Koreans tried for war crimes can be excused, then if that is so then why can't Japanese soldiers be excused. It was not like the Japanese soldiers exactly had a choice to fight or not fight. The young Korean and Japanese men had to fight.
I know an older gentleman whose father fought alongside Japanese soldiers in World War II in China. His father generally got along with the Japanese soldiers, and he had Japanese soldier friends. They were just young men. His father had the view that "There are good and bad Japanese people just like in every country you have good and bad people". His father was interviewed by visiting Japanese professors who came to Korea.
As far as the Comfort Women, the Japanese have been put heavily on the defensive recently over that, and the Japanese just like the Koreans have this Asian culture of saving face. They do not want to shame themselves too much regarding the past. It is not like Koreans are working to look at the bad parts of their past like alliances from many Koreans with the Japanese against other Koreans, taking part in war crimes in China, ignoring the Koreans who were forced to live in Russia and not doing anything to repatriate them or the ones stuck on Sakhalin. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
The Korean POW guards in the Pacific War had a well-deserved reputation for brutality(not that the Japanese were softies). Then again, many Koreans had served with the Kempeitai in Korea and were often brutal in the course of their duties.
In the Vietnam War, the ROK Tiger (infantry) Division had a well-deserved reputation for brutality. |
Apparently the ROK had the second largest unit behind US, but they were mostly assigned to "clear and hold". The US troops did most of the offense.
The ROK's brutality probably came from their deep hatred of communism. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I don't think the S. Koreans had the same scope of operations as the Americans but they saw heavy fighting. Something like 5,000 killed during the war and God knows how many wounded. As for the brutality bit, anti-communism might have had something to do with it. Then again, it's worth remembering that the North in the Korean War commited appalling atrocities against enemy soldiers and civilians alike.
Not to get off-topic but I can never resist asking this trivia tidbit about the Vietnam War: what was the only European country to send a contingent(albeit a small one) to support the South? |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Spain?
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Yeah, I don't think the S. Koreans had the same scope of operations as the Americans but they saw heavy fighting.
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They were stationed in the eastern part of Vietnam, where the majority of the major battles were in the west central region where the Americans faced the Vietcongs all day long.
What was also baffling about the ROKs was the cutting of people's ears and hanging them off their belts, a practice originated from medieval China. This is all interesting as I've never heard my Vietnamese friends talk about the Korean involvement during the war. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Peeng-poong! Yep. Franco's Spain.
I've heard about the ear bit too. No idea, off the top of my head, about sources regarding some of the ROK Forces more...ahem...unique practices. I'm sure some can be googled. Wish I had my VIETNAM WAR ALMANAC here. |
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