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huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

No. That is absurd.

So you think Islam is an intolerant blight that commands all of its followers to kill non-Muslims. And all religion is a brainwashing disease. And religious belief is the same as a mental disorder. But if you were the king of the world, you'd still keep religion around? Is that correct?

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

The UK has almost as many Hindus as Muslims. One of those groups causes very few problems the other causes many. What Hindus do in India is of no concern to me.

Hey, I'm not allowed to bring up the Catholics when we discuss Muslim extremists in Britain. What makes you think you can bring up the Muslims when we're discussing Hindu extremists?

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject:

Quote:

So you think Islam is an intolerant blight

Factually true. It is clear in the koran, and reiterated many times in the hadiths.

Quote:

that commands all of its followers to kill non-Muslims.

Factually true. It is clear in the koran, and reiterated many times in the hadiths.

Quote:

And all religion is a brainwashing disease.

The sheep being led. Nothing more. But the content of the disease is very important.

Quote:

And religious belief is the same as a mental disorder.

The more strongly held your religious opinion, the more crazy you are. And the content of the disorder is very important.

Quote:

But if you were the king of the world, you'd still keep religion around?

Yes.

Quote:

Is that correct?

Yes.

The Soviets tried to stamp out religion and were not successful. Same with the Norks. It simply cannot be done. The best we can do is limit the damage the crazy muslims (et al) can do to a nation by ensuring that 1) their ideas are NEVER made into policy (same for the Christians) and 2) their ideas are subject to immense criticism at every point of their expression. Fully ending islamic immigration would also be an extremely intelligent thing to do.. And I suspect it will get done, once Europe erupts.

And Europe will erupt.

So, you see huff, you are barking up the wrong tree. I actually have less a problem with the muslims (who i see as the ideological equivalent of a three-legged dog) than I do with the white lefties who will defend them with name calling and ignorant myth-making simply because they worship the minority as a noble creature onto himself.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. This lesson will be learned the hard way. Political correctness and the cult of mulitcult have sealed a very violent near future for europe. I have a close-ish friend who is Dutch-Moroccan here in Singapore, who is a mildly obedient muslim says that what Rotterdam and Amsterdam have coming will make Paris look like a peaceful walk on the beach.

Sit back and enjoy the show.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:19 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

So, you see huff, you are barking up the wrong tree. I actually have less a problem with the muslims (who i see as the ideological equivalent of a three-legged dog) than I do with the white lefties who will defend them with name calling and ignorant myth-making simply because they worship the minority as a noble creature onto himself.

Really? I find the European love-hate relation with immigrant Muslims to be rather odious. But like I've said before, I'm not really concerned about Europe. Do you really find the North American apologists to be worse than the extremists themselves? Are you more concerned with scoring political points than solving the problem?

Quote:

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. This lesson will be learned the hard way. Political correctness and the cult of mulitcult have sealed a very violent near future for europe. I have a close-ish friend who is Dutch-Moroccan here in Singapore, who is a mildly obedient muslim says that what Rotterdam and Amsterdam have coming will make Paris look like a peaceful walk on the beach.

Sit back and enjoy the show.

So what's the official BJWD prediction? How long do we have to wait for the blood bath? One year? Two? Five? How many will die? Hundreds? Thousands?

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:44 am Post subject:

Quote:

But like I've said before, I'm not really concerned about Europe.

And like I've said before, I am. The American immigration problems are entirely different and much less serious.

Quote:

Do you really find the North American apologists to be worse than the extremists themselves?

I hold people who come from secular nations to a higher intellectual standard than I do people who come from regressive nations with a psychosis as a national idea. To be rude, I expect barbarism from people who come from cultures that hold barbaric ideas as Truth. So, to answer the question, Yes. At least the extremists have an excuse. What is yours?

Quote:

Are you more concerned with scoring political points than solving the problem?

Political points with who?? You? Camon.

Quote:

So what's the official BJWD prediction? How long do we have to wait for the blood bath? One year? Two? Five? How many will die? Hundreds? Thousands?

Mass riots across the whole continent coupled with a "native" European backlash within 2 years.

Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:52 am Post subject:

Liz Hurley is a straight-haired ho! ... There is only one God, but everything in the material world is controlled by the interaction of the modes of goodness, passion, and ignorance. Just as there are foods in the mode of ignorance (eg: meat and liquor...) there are religions in the lower modes of nature - and relatively good and bad sects (and individuals) within each religious tradition ... Hinduism probably encompasses the most widely divergent set of belief systems ... (Even some scientists are strongly influenced by the mode of ignorance ...) Many atheists tend to be offensively ignorant, but it's unfortunate that many of them were turned off the spiritual path by materialistic, sectarian, and fanatical religionists...

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:07 am Post subject:

And on that note I'll retire from the thread. How could I possible follow that?

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:50 am Post subject:

gang ah jee wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Religious belief does not necessarily imply direct communication with a Supreme Being. In fact, the three great Western faiths address this in one way or another. In Judaism, graven images of Yahweh are forbidden. Islam has a similar prohibition, BJWD, for which you mock it. In Christianity, Christ acts as the mediator between God and man, because there is precisely no other way for man to communicate directly with God, or vice versa.

Hold on. Don't Jews, Muslims and Christians pray ... to God? And how is it that man cannot communicate directly with God when the mediator is Christ, ... who is God?

Christ is God and man, yes. That is why he is the mediator. Christ is divine, but he is not God the omnipotent or God the omniscient. He is God in the flesh. He is God the sacrificial lamb.

Praying to God is not like writing a wish list to Santa Claus. You don't get what you pray for. Prayer is like a meditation, it is a devotion and a discipline. Prayer helps you focus. Prayer as a wish list is pagan, especially given that pagans used to sacrifice to get things, and in the Old Testament, God preferred piety to sacrifice (Think Abraham and Isaac).

gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Fine, but are you saying that God doesn't hear prayers? Because as far as I can tell that's the only way you can make your case that prayer does not involve direct communication with God. From a purely discourse analysis point of view (the sociolinguistics of prayer! yay!), even if a given prayer is not made directly to God, if he is intended to overhear it, that will influence the content and form. In this sense then this is direct communication, in much the same way that a witness communicates with a jury in a court case, through interaction with the lawyers (the point of this analogy is not the legal aspect, rather the discursive dynamic).

If your point is that not all people in the Abrahamic faiths pray directly to God for shorter traffic jams, success in exams and more effective stain removal, then it's well taken.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

Quote:

Do you really find the North American apologists to be worse than the extremists themselves?

Sounds kind of like multicult PCism to me. But hey, I'll be sure to remember it the next time you ask why tolerating Muslim intolerance is okay, but tolerating Islamophobic intolerance is not.

Quote:

Are you more concerned with scoring political points than solving the problem?

Political points with who?? You? Camon.

With whomever. I realize your opinions are meaningless, but they contribute to the left-right name calling that is dividing the world.

Quote:

So what's the official BJWD prediction? How long do we have to wait for the blood bath? One year? Two? Five? How many will die? Hundreds? Thousands?

Mass riots across the whole continent coupled with a "native" European backlash within 2 years.

Okay. So by the spring of 2009. Mass riots across all of Europe. Gotcha.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject:

gang ah jee wrote:

Kuros wrote:

I honestly don't know if God directly hears prayers. As an agnostic myself who has merely studied a lot of theology, I am somewhat uncomfortable to find myself on this ground. I would say that God has to hear prayers if he is omniscient. So, I would agree with you. The point I want to stress is that God does not 'talk back.' Communication with God is not discursive in the sense that Mindmetoo and BJWD want to paint it.

More important than a sort of verbal communication with God in Christianity is receiving God's grace and accepting it. Here I must distinguish Christianity from Judaism and Islam because I don't believe these other two treat grace as such should there even be a working concept. Grace is a tough concept that I never quite wrapped my head around, which is too bad because it is at the heart of the Christian's relationship to God.

But my real point is that religion is not the equivalent of 'having an imaginary friend' at all. Religion seeks to address a lot of life's essential questions that cannot be addressed by science or even astrology.

gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

But my real point is that religion is not the equivalent of 'having an imaginary friend' at all. Religion seeks to address a lot of life's essential questions that cannot be addressed by science or even astrology.

Wow! I'm surprised you have such a high opinion of astrology's ability to address life's essential questions! Very Happy

Regarding the rest of what you said though, if I were you I'd add in a 'not neccessarily' or two - many Christians - George W. Bush for example - do believe that they have direct, two-way communication with God and/or Jesus. While it's true that religion has more purposes than simply providing people with supernatural interlocutors, if it is the case that whatever God(s) people think they have been chatting with do(es) not exist(s), then I think 'imaginary friend' isn't a terribly unfair description of the situation.

Of course, some people seem to believe that they are in communication with malevolent entities such as the Devil, in which case 'friend' might not be the right word.

postfundie

Joined: 28 May 2004

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Islamophobic intolerance

Code:

This a made up idiot word...just like cultophobic....

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: GRAPHIC PICTURES BELOW

huffdaddy wrote:

why tolerating Muslim intolerance is okay, but tolerating Islamophobic intolerance is not.

So, you are trying to equate, drunkenly I very seriously hope, my expectation of their violence with toleration of their violence and put that in a larger context of my clear and defined intolerance of islam which people like you (that is, those who have zero knowledge about the faith itself, and just arrogant blind faith that they will follow the white-man's path of enlightenment) call a 'fear of an idea', or "islamophobia".

Let us look at "islamophobia".

Quote:

CAIR SEEKS FBI PROBE OF �HATE CRIME� AT TN MOSQUE

Political, religious leaders asked to repudiate growing Islamophobia

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 4/10/07) � A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group today called on the FBI to investigated what Tennessee law enforcement authorities are calling a �hate crime� targeting a mosque in that state.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations CAIR said worshipers at the Islamic Center of Clarksville found a defaced copy of the Quran, Islam�s revealed text, on the front steps of the mosque just before communal prayers (Jummah) on Friday. Two strips of bacon, which is prohibited for Muslims to eat, were smeared in the Quran. Local police are investigating the incident as a hate crime.

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070410/NEWS01/704100343

I bet that puts fear in the hearts of the seething muslim masses. Bacon on a koran. Oh my!

Now, lets look at "infidelophobia", wich is really just right-wing racist hatred.

Quote:

Web posted at: 4/12/2007 4:26:31
Source ::: REUTERS

YALA, Thailand � A Buddhist woman was shot at and burned alive in Thailand�s violence-torn Muslim-majority south yesterday, prompting angry protests in front of visiting army chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin.

Watcharaporn Boonmak, 26, was ambushed by gunmen as she rode her motorcycle through a Muslim village in Yala,

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070411/3/305uj.html
OR,

Quote:

Kadra attacked in public
Norwegian-Somalian Kadra, who became famous in Norway for exposing imam support of female circumcision, was beaten unconscious on Thursday.

Norwegian-Somalian Kadra has taken risks to front her views.

Kadra was attacked and beaten senseless by seven or eight persons of Somali origin, newspaper VG reports.

"I was terrified. While I lay on the pavement they kicked me and screamed that I had trampled on the Koran. Several shouted Allah-o-akbar (God is great) and also recited from the Koran," Kadra told VG.

Kadra linked the attack to recent remarks in VG where she said that the Koran's views on women needed to be reinterpreted.

Kadra said that the gang of Somali men attacked her around 3 a.m. in downtown Oslo on Thursday. A medical examination found that she had several broken ribs, NRK (Norwegian Broadcasting) reports. Kadra filed charges and was due to speak with police on Friday.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1734869.ece

We are facing a Nazi-like, right-wing racist/supremacist threat in the West. And the threat is young obedient muslim men who follow the words of their "holy" book.

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... nor follow
the religion of truth... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment
of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
Qur'an, Sura 9:29

An "empiricist" without a sense of proportion isn't an empiricist. More like a blind seeing eye dog. Eh.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:59 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

huffdaddy wrote:

why tolerating Muslim intolerance is okay, but tolerating Islamophobic intolerance is not.

Where did I say anything about tolerating violence? I detest violence. I've never excused violence by any group. But if a few cab drivers in Minneapolis don't want to carry alcohol in their cabs, I'm not going to consider it a sign of the coming Muslim revolution in America. If some Muslim-American women still wear a hajib or burkha, I'm not going to wet my pants over it. Those are the things I tolerate and accept as remnants of their backward-ass homeland and things you, from a supposedly enlightened country, are unwilling to tolerate.

Islam, like all religions, does not exist outside of its adherents. Muslims should be neither defined nor judged based on what some guy wrote 1500 years ago. Nor should they be judged on what a few extremists are willing to do in the name of "Islam." By identifying the acts of extremists as Islamic acts, you are merely falling for the extremists' bait. They want to create the West-Muslim divide. Only by creating an identifiable cleavage point of "us versus them" will they be able to accomplish their goals. In other words, you're falling for their black-and-white view of the world, where as I am willing to accept shades of gray.

Furthermore, for someone who isn't concerned about the violence, you seem to bring it up a lot. Why is that always your fall back "proof" that Islam is an evil religion?

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