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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't read all that Lee Iacocca's words, but I have read some of his books. He is good old-fashioned Italian-American who generally has some good principles. He represents something America has less of people willing to go out in the streets when they clearly have been misled by the government. If this was done in a different era, there would have been massive protests.
I mean you had the mismanagement that led to Hurricane Katrina being a worse disaster than it should have, the public was purposely made to think Al Qaeda and Saddam were linked while denying that was said a few years later (they keep changing their story), there was the appointment of an unqualified person to FEMA which is a sign of government incompetence, billions and billions have disappeared in Iraq, money that Americans could use in their cities, contractors like Halliburton have cheated the public and have got away with it, and now an attorney general is still in office after firing people probing corruption and somehow e-mails are missing from a server which is a legal violation.......
When Iacocca grew up there were millions of working class people coming from Ireland, Italy, Germany, Greece, Scotland, and they were not docile people. I think people have become way too soft. And it sad that people don't think that this presidency has been one of the worst ever. Actually, many people do, but they don't really exhibit much outrage. I could be wrong, but it seems like people are too numb.
I mean many of the deaths of Hurricane Katrina could have been avoided, but they were not. The fact that people aren't outraged enough is sad. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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EFLTrainer sputtered:
Ah, yes, there you go again with the simple S-V-O sentences spat out like watermelon seeds.
Let me clue you in: Helen Thomas is a partisan Democratic sympathizer so she's hardly a neutral source.
Considering your dismissal of their effectiveness after 9-11, I can assume you also think Bob Woodward of Watergate fame is a tool of the administration, eh?
And how do you explain away the simple fact that there has not been a terrorist attack on American soil since 9-11?
mindmetoo asked fairly:
| Quote: |
| Bush claims a lot his detractors aren't supporting the troops. That's more or less saying one is unpatriotic. |
I can't and won't reach inside the mind of Bush to presume to know what he meant. Suffice it to say that I abhor what the Congress, especially Reid and Pelosi, but I don't believe they're unpatriotic. However, they are quite misguided, as liberals are prone to be in all matters of foreign policy in my view. Clearly, Pelosi's recent trip to Syria benefited no one in the region except the Syrians. Even a casual observer can see that much, don't you agree?
And this is my biggest bone of contention as Bush has reiterated: why approve of Petraeus unanimously for the job and then try to prevent him from having what in his own judgement he wants to finish the job?
This is all grandstanding by the Dems before the elections. They are putting politics ahead of country, which is shameful.
That said, there are those like Murtha and Hagen who do not want to feel responsible for a second Vietnam ending and given their experiences there and age it's not surprising to me that they balked. Many fine military men tend to do so in older age--look at Eisenhower, for example. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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. We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the country. |
as a % of GDP what is it? Why do you not answer that? |
What are your figures?
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
It would seem as a % of GDP, it went up under Reagan/Bush, down under Clinton, and up with Bush II.
So right not the highest as a % of GDP in history. There was that WWII thing. But what does that figure really mean? The GDP is not the government's budget. If I make 50K a year and spend 60K a year and next year I plan to spend 65K a year, what does it matter what the GDP is? |
As a % of the Federal budget it is less than at other times in US history.
It is lower now than it was in the 80's and a % of GDP.
Sure, a 300 billion dollar debt would be huge to a country like South Korea but to the US isn't isn't such a huge number.
Is it a good thing of course not but the numbers ought to be put into perspective. If Lee Iacocca had been interested in writing something truly honest he would have done so. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Helen Thomas is a partisan Democratic sympathizer so she's hardly a neutral source. |
I said she wasn't? But it is irrelevant. She's considered a hell of a reporter, which means she can separate out her personal issues from facts. It's what she does for a living. The question is, troll, do you think you can get away with characterizing Iacocca or Thomas, both of whom hold exactly the stance and revulsion towards Bush as I and others do, as rabid nutcases, as you are wont to do with those that regularly rhetorically kick your ass?
This is just another example: You said of Iacocca, "He's old." Ageism. Nice.
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And how do you explain away the simple fact that there has not been a terrorist attack on American soil since 9-11?
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How do you explain away there NOT being any before? Poor, poor rhetoric. 4th grade level. Step it up, troll.
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| mindmetoo asked fairly: |
He asked nothing fairly. He attempted to hijack the thread. The question is: How do you explain your bullshit, troll?
C'mon: tell us how crazy both Thomas and Iacocca are. Go ahead. Tell us how they are unthinking, stillborn wastes of space for the views they hold. Go ahead. Quit avoiding the question, troll.
Or is ageism - basically calling them cowards - your only defense? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:25 am Post subject: |
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ELF trainer
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How do you explain away there NOT being any before? Poor, poor rhetoric. 4th grade level. Step it up, troll. |
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CIA shooting suspect held without bond
June 18, 1997
Web posted at: 11:50 a.m. EDT (1550 GMT) CIA graphic
FAIRFAX, Virginia (CNN) -- The man suspected of killing two people and injuring three others in a 1993 shooting spree outside CIA headquarters was ordered held without bond Wednesday morning.
Prosecutors consider Mir Aimal Kansi a risk to flee. He was returned to the United States from Pakistan Tuesday after a multi-national manhunt. |
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:34 am; edited 2 times in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Joo said, " * ." |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Ah. I did zone that one. OK: How do you explain there was only one before? And how do you explain that the biggest occurred 9 months into Bush's term with his Sec. Of Def. directly in charge of military operations...? |
there was at least one more than one before - post corrected
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Anyway, stupid *beep*.
Means no more than, "Well, then why haven't there been any more massive asteroid hits? Star Wars has prevented them!"
Oh, and for the record, more than 3,000 Americans HAVE died since. |
The Bathists and the Khomeni followers and Al Qadists were at war with the US before 9-11. That is the reason that the US is at war now.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| And his track record, as head of Chrysler, on protecting the environment? A great leader still? |
Comment on Iacocca and how it is possible to portray him, as I have been for having the same views, whacked out, raging nutcase.
Or shut up, punk. |
Tut tut. The greatest crime is disagreeing with you. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
As a % of the Federal budget it is less than at other times in US history. |
Do you have any links on that?
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Sure, a 300 billion dollar debt would be huge to a country like South Korea but to the US isn't isn't such a huge number. |
Don't mix up debt and deficit. Deficit is how much you have to borrow to cover that year's budget shortfall. Debt is the total owned. Oi, if American only had a national debt of 300 billion. The debt is getting near 9 trillion dollars. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
Or shut up, punk. |
You realize that you are the most obnoxious poster on this site now? You are scores ahead of dd (that is a feat in and of itself).
Your every post turns every other poster off of your positions. I don't care why you are so angry, but the arrogant, name-calling hyper anger shtick is getting old. You are starting to warrant the description of "pathetic", which is quite a big word.
Chill the *beep* out dude. Camon. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
As a % of the Federal budget it is less than at other times in US history. |
Sooooo, what does that tell us? It tells us fully nothing, actually. I actually think it to be 100% wrong too.
The real figure is debt as a % of net GDP, or, % of GDP growth, or % per head.
The federal budget is only a measure of what the government expects to spend. The deficit is the difference between what they expect to spend and what they spend as what they expect to spend should mirror the taxes they steal from citizens. The debt is the total value, plus interest, of all deficits.
Governmental debt is an inability to balance expenditures and revenue.
But during the Clinton years, debt as a % of GDP decreased due to the quickly growing American economy and Willie's ability to keep budgets balanced. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: |
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IACOCCA:
I
Am
Chairman
Of
Chrysler
Corporation of
America
Looks like another conspiracy. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| And his track record, as head of Chrysler, on protecting the environment? A great leader still? |
Comment on Iacocca and how it is possible to portray him, as I have been for having the same views, whacked out, raging nutcase.
Or shut up, punk. |
Tut tut. The greatest crime is disagreeing with you. |
Disagree? You haven't said anything on this thread. And even on those threads where we agree, you still try to twist the thread into a referendum on me. Weird.
You've developed a bit of a fetish for wandering onto my threads and trying to turn them into threads about me. It's kind of icky. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
Or shut up, punk. |
You realize that you are the most obnoxious poster on this site now? You are scores ahead of dd (that is a feat in and of itself).
Your every post turns every other poster off of your positions. I don't care why you are so angry, but the arrogant, name-calling hyper anger shtick is getting old. You are starting to warrant the description of "pathetic", which is quite a big word.
Chill the *beep* out dude. Camon. |
You're an idiot. Look at how this thread started and who turned what where. You are weak-minded. Can't get past your 1. agendas and 2. personal dislikes. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:08 am Post subject: |
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[quote="mindmetoo"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
As a % of the Federal budget it is less than at other times in US history. |
Do you have any links on that?
I not say less than at any time but it is better than it was during the 80% or even world war II
I didn't check but your link I think will show that.
Ok how about this?
| Quote: |
Don't mix up debt and deficit. Deficit is how much you have to borrow to cover that year's budget shortfall. Debt is the total owned. Oi, if American only had a national debt of 300 billion. The debt is getting near 9 trillion dollars. |
my mistake but the deficit while not a good thing needs to be put into context.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:25 am; edited 2 times in total |
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