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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: Foreigners Condemn USA Gun Culture... |
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Foreign politicians and media attacked America's "gun culture" on Tuesday after a gunman killed 32 people in the country's worst shooting rampage.
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In Italy, the Leftist Il Manifesto newspaper said the shooting was "as American as apple pie."
France's Le Monde newspaper said such episodes frequently disfigure the "American dream."
"The ... slaughter forces American society to once again examine itself, its violence, the obsession with guns of part of its population, the troubles of its youth, subjected to the double tyranny of abundance and competition," it wrote. |
I suppose others on Dave will join this thread and take their best shot. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Well, it is as American as Kimchi and loom sarons. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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That left wing nutball John Howard said this:
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| Australian Prime Minister John Howard said the shooting underscored the problems of a U.S. �gun culture,� |
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�We took action,� Australian PM says
Howard, the Australian prime minister, staked his political leadership on pushing through tough laws on gun ownership in his country after a lone gunman went on one of the world�s deadliest killing sprees 11 years ago in his country.
�We took action to limit the availability of guns and we showed a national resolve that the gun culture that is such a negative in the United States would never become a negative in our country,� he said. |
go here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/ |
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Natalia
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Foreigners Condemn USA Gun Culture... |
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Can you really not see the problem?
Perhaps the Americans who are getting all defensive about the attacks on this 'gun culture' should start addressing it rather than looking for ways to excuse it. |
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Toon Army
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Foreigners Condemn USA Gun Culture... |
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| Natalia wrote: |
Can you really not see the problem?
Perhaps the Americans who are getting all defensive about the attacks on this 'gun culture' should start addressing it rather than looking for ways to excuse it. |
the sad fact is that Americans love their "right to bear arms" too much to outlaw guns to the ordinary citizen. There usual argument is that guns don't kill, but people do, or that law abiding citizens need to protect themselves from criminals, or that shooting guns well teach responsibility and instill discipline.Virginia is a conservative state that also happens to be the home of the National Rifles Association (Charleston Heston was its famous spokesperson) in its state capital Richmond |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Foreigners Condemn USA Gun Culture... |
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| Natalia wrote: |
Can you really not see the problem?
Perhaps the Americans who are getting all defensive about the attacks on this 'gun culture' should start addressing it rather than looking for ways to excuse it. |
I'm not defensive, but anyone can clearly see that none of this criticism is constructive. Unless someone can point out how the US can collect everyone's guns and diminish the demand for it at the same time.
In the 1920s, Americans decided there was a permissive alcohol culture and Prohibited it.
In the 1980s, Americans decided there was a permissive drug culture and declared War on it.
I would urge those who wag their finger at the US look at US history for explanations of why there is a gun culture. The comments made by columnists and politicians abroad are not constructive, and neither really is yours. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Read the article about John Howard. They got rid of their guns. S.Korea was awash with guns after the Korean War and they got rid of them.
There are many countries who have gotten rid of guns OR at least passed that laws that make their use a little more sane.
The fact that a person not working for the US military can by a weapon capable of shooting down an aircraft is INSANE. It has nothing to do with the constitution or rights, it has to do with sanity. |
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cellphone
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| the real problem is no one kicked this guy's ass once he whipped out some guns. or better yet, had been carrying their own defensive weapons to fight back, throw some classroom chairs even. anyways, there will never be "no guns", will there? |
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Kimchi Cha Cha
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: was Suncheon, now Brisbane
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
That left wing nutball John Howard said this:
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| Australian Prime Minister John Howard said the shooting underscored the problems of a U.S. �gun culture,� |
and
| Quote: |
�We took action,� Australian PM says
Howard, the Australian prime minister, staked his political leadership on pushing through tough laws on gun ownership in his country after a lone gunman went on one of the world�s deadliest killing sprees 11 years ago in his country.
�We took action to limit the availability of guns and we showed a national resolve that the gun culture that is such a negative in the United States it would never become a negative in our country,� he said. |
go here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/ |
I fully concur that John Howard is a nutball, he's a big reason why I live here and not back home. But, this is the first time I've ever heard him called left-wing.
I thought it was pretty callous of Johnny to take a couple of swipes at the US during this time but Johnny was doing what Johnny does best, blowing his own trumpet and pandering to the Australian general public's insecurities. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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I was being funny since the OP seemed to be insinuating that we lefties were going to jump on the bandwagon of Il Manefetino.
My point, aside from the lefty joke, is that even a rightwingnut fruitbat like John Howard is against guns, so there is hope for Americans. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| It has nothing to do with the constitution or rights, it has to do with sanity. |
This would be incorrect. Independence was won with a citizen militia. I'm generally gun control proponent, but that statement lacks any foundation. But for guns in the hands of citizens, we'd still be part of the empire. Not a pretty thought, as bad as George and Co. have made things. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Courtesy of a link I got through BJWD's link in his thread:
Volokh Conspiracy
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| [I]n most years the total number of murders on all college campuses combined is about 10 to 20. The Virginia Tech incident represents more murders in a single day than typically happen on all college campuses combined over an entire year. |
What about the rate of school shootings?
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Newman notes that there was no more than one such case in the entire US for any year between the 1974-1975 and 1991-92 school years. There was a small spike in the 1990s (starting with 2 cases in 1993, and a high of 6 in 1997-9 , but falling again to 1 case in 1999-2000 and 0 in 2001-2002. It is likely that there was a brief 1990s spike caused by copycats imitating a few highly publicized cases, such as Columbine. At the same time, the peak years still had such low absolute numbers of cases that it is quite possible that the increase was simply a result of random chance variation |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| But for guns in the hands of citizens, we'd still be part of the empire. |
Actually it's "But for the French keeping Britain from crushing your puny rebellion" but it's hard to ignore a cherished creation myth, |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| It has nothing to do with the constitution or rights, it has to do with sanity. |
This would be incorrect. Independence was won with a citizen militia. I'm generally gun control proponent, but that statement lacks any foundation. But for guns in the hands of citizens, we'd still be part of the empire. Not a pretty thought, as bad as George and Co. have made things. |
Well, perhaps the amendments providing the right to bear arms is more a relic of colonial times, and while they are to do with the American constitution and rights, they are no longer relevant. America had an armed populace then and no standing army, now they have both. Surely the world's biggest army is enough to stop the King of England from coming in any time he likes and pushing you around?
John Howard's gun buyback scheme was applauded by all, and earned him the begrudging respect of people, who before had loathed everything he stood for. Still, I don't think it's an entirely relevant comparison since Australia has never had anything resembling America's gun culture. A few enthusiasts, farmers, bushmen and career criminals were the only ones who ever had a desire, or need for guns, and they were firmly in the minority. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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EDIT* Double post.
Last edited by happeningthang on Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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