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Abstinence students still having sex
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flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:17 am Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

[

It's a reasonably safe bet that the abstinence programs are largely supported by Christians. It's pretty much the corner stone of their teen birth control program, no?

Perhaps you are right about this. But that does not mean the participants were christian. Now if your point is that christians trying to make non-christians act like christians is bound to backfire, I agree. If I were not a christian I can't see why I would ever use chrisitan ideals/tenets to make any of my decisions.

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:28 am Post subject:

Octavius Hite wrote:

[

I love to wallow in hypocrisy.

Wrong. It is not hypocrisy that you eat up. It is human weakness that gets you going. Helps you feel more justified in giving in to it. Some people never outgrow the whole "everyone else is doing it" rationale.

crusher_of_heads

Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:08 am Post subject:

Octavius Hite wrote:

I love to wallow in hypocrisy and stupidity.

Noboddy can successfully argue against this.

"Everyone is stupid but Octavius Hite"-Octavius Hite

"Everyone is stupid be me. I am the smart! I am the smart! smrt! I mean s-m-A-r-t!"-Homer

It's that time of the month for you-settle down and have some chocolate.

EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:

flakfizer wrote:

Perhaps you are right about this. But that does not mean the participants were christian.

Yeah, it pretty much does. This is not a comment made on science, but common sense. Why don't you go do some research and let us know rather than arguing a point that is 100% guesswork until someone checks this point? Well, it's an educated guess: they were all, or a majority were, Christian. How do I know? 80 percent of Americans still identify themselves as Christian.

Glad we settled that, kids.

Rolling Eyes

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject:

flakfizer wrote:

Octavius Hite wrote:

[

I love to wallow in hypocrisy.

I also find Christians use their self righteousness to justify giving into their own hatred, pride, selfishness, and sloth.

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

flakfizer wrote:

Octavius Hite wrote:

[

I love to wallow in hypocrisy.

I also find Christians use their self righteousness to justify giving into their own hatred, pride, selfishness, and sloth.

Not sure what you're talking about here. Who was talking about self-righteousness? The issue was about man's weakness and inability to live a completely righteous life and why this should not be celebrated and used as an excuse not to try to live a righteous life.

The_Conservative

Joined: 15 Mar 2007

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

[? It's a bit like saying Intelligent Design isn't Christian Creationism. I mean maybe there are one or two people at the Discovery Institute that believes humans were created by space aliens or a non Christian deity, but c'mon.

..

While some Christians are indeed ID supporters, Creationism and ID are not one and the same.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=1329

And that's just some of the many differences.

Creationism also leads to the belief of a still-involved God as opposed to the traditional view of many ID'ers of a intelligent designer setting things in motion and then standing back. In fact many ID'ers are hostile to anything that refers to a Biblical God.

ID is regarded among many conservative christians (who believe in creationism) as a heresy.

Last edited by The_Conservative on Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:41 pm; edited 2 times in total

Octavius Hite

Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I probably live a more righteous life than anyone on this board. Just because I like sex doesn't make me less righteous. But thanks anyway. Laughing

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject:

EFLtrainer wrote:

flakfizer wrote:

Perhaps you are right about this. But that does not mean the participants were christian.

Why is my "guesswork" worse than the guesswork of those who are assuming the participants are christian? I think it makes more sense that they are not, as christians would have no need to join such a group. Conservative christians already belong to a group that teaches abstinence. It's called the Church. And as for your desperate attempt to prove the majority were christian because "80 percent of Americans still identify themselves as Christian,"
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/church_poll020301.html

"Not counting weddings and funerals, 38 percent of Americans say they go to religious services at least once a week. But there are big differences across demographic groups, with self-reported attendance peaking among older people, women, Southerners and Baptists, among others.
The biggest gap is between the oldest and youngest age groups. Sixty percent of people age 65 and older report attending religious services at least once a week; among 18 to 30-year-olds, just 28 percent go that often."

Anyone can say, "I'm christian." 80% of people also probably think they are funny when drunk. Doesn't make it true.

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject:

Octavius Hite wrote:

Quote:

Who was talking about self-righteousness?

I probably live a more righteous life than anyone on this board.

Well, nobody was talking about.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject:

flakfizer wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

flakfizer wrote:

Octavius Hite wrote:

[

I love to wallow in hypocrisy.

I also find Christians use their self righteousness to justify giving into their own hatred, pride, selfishness, and sloth.

You blame human weakness and a "everyone else is doing it" rationale to explain why people don't lead "a righteous life". I just want to point out a lot of Christians do not lead "a righteous life" and use their religious beliefs to justify their actions.

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

flakfizer wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

flakfizer wrote:

Octavius Hite wrote:

[

I love to wallow in hypocrisy.

I also find Christians use their self righteousness to justify giving into their own hatred, pride, selfishness, and sloth.

Don't mean to quibble, but I wasn't actually focusing on people making excuses for not living a righteous life, but on people making excuses for not trying to live a righteous life. No one is righteous. But I think we should still try to live a righteous life and not just shrug our shoulders and say, "Eh, no one's perfect so might as well just do whatever I want."

Octavius Hite

Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject:

The states job is not to make sure you lead a righteous life. Its job is to protect you. Thats it. By pushing the FAILED policy of abstinence they are endangering lives. Period.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject:

The_Conservative wrote:

You can tell people a pig is a dog, but when the facts all bear out that it's a pig. It's a pig. Let's examine Kitzmiller vs Dover on this very topic. Is ID really just creationism? Seems a conservative religious judge, in a venue of evidence and logic, ruled:

"The evidence at trial demonstrates that ID is nothing less than the progeny of creationism"

"The overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory."

Indeed the ID textbook Of Pandas and People was found by that same trial to be nothing more than a creationism textbook with literally "creationism" crossed out and "intelligent designer" over written.

Quote:

As Plaintiffs meticulously and effectively presented to the Court, Pandas went through many drafts, several of which were completed prior to and some after the Supreme Court's decision in Edwards, which held that the Constitution forbids teaching creationism as science. By comparing the pre and post Edwards drafts of Pandas, three astonishing points emerge: (1) the definition for creation science in early drafts is identical to the definition of ID; (2) cognates of the word creation (creationism and creationist), which appeared approximately 150 times were deliberately and systematically replaced with the phrase ID; and (3) the changes occurred shortly after the Supreme Court held that creation science is religious and cannot be taught in public school science classes in Edwards. This word substitution is telling, significant, and reveals that a purposeful change of words was effected without any corresponding change in content

I'm sorry but when you can take a creationism textbook and simply File | Replace it with ID, it's very, very strong evidence ID is creationism.

It's also very odd if ID is so heretical to creation believing Christians why the Discovery Institute's major source of funding is the Christian Reconstructionist movement (notably super rich Howard Ahmanson Jr.) who want to make biblical law US law.

Last edited by mindmetoo on Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:43 pm; edited 5 times in total

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject:

flakfizer wrote:

But I think we should still try to live a righteous life and not just shrug our shoulders and say, "Eh, no one's perfect so might as well just do whatever I want."

Who argues that?

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