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Why are there so many shootings in America?
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cosmo



Joined: 09 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: Why are there so many shootings in America? Reply with quote

Intriguing online discussion in the Telegraph speakers' corner

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=BLOGDETAIL&grid=F11&blog=yourview&xml=/news/2007/04/16/ublview16d.xml
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RACETRAITOR



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, this will end well.
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alienation. The killers tutor had not so much as said 2 words to him in 4 years. America is a cosmopolitan society, but very impersonal. Not all immigrants have the ability to push themselves forward and adapt.

Koreans maybe even less so? Considering their society is very gregarious and family based, it can be hard for them to function on their own, I would say.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guns are easily attained. It's not rocket science. Give any population such access and watch the murder rates rise.
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JeJuJitsu



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are cars legal in Korea?
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bixlerscott



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Location: Near Wonju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are cars legal in Korea? RLMAO! That is a good joke!! Thanks for the laugh. Yes, traffic is still yet the main danger in Korea as long as you ignore young Korean men insulting you or acting agressive towards you. Avoid them as much as possible as fighting is not worth it.

OK, lets get serious...
Guns are plentiful and easily acquired in America, while widening economic disparities, social conflicts, and corruption prevails that get worse each passing day. It's a shame how it is and where the jaded misled nation must be going. It is old Rome before her historic collapse in many many ways... History tells all of how great nations cycle through time periods...Kinda like business life cycles. Born, experience exciting growth (Korea today), reach a pinnacle, then decline in depressive cycles(America today), and one day death rears its' ugly head... Same for individual humans and all of life on Earth.

I wish Americans could focus on living good (truely high class status) instead of how to get rich (false high class status).... If only it were the 1950's again in America and we could be guided from what we know now...I wish...

Korea shows us alot of what America 1950's was like which I have a hunch Korea is headed in the same direction too as they too will not see the truths, I believe. History repeats itself while it's forgotten by many which is why history repeats and is facinating and why some scholars are historians.
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Matt_22



Joined: 22 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gun deaths are a byproduct of the freedom to own firearms. this is an unfortunate side effect of a society's ability to make their own decisions. not much unlike the freedom to smoke tobacco, which inevitably leads to exponentially greater deaths than guns do. it's just that tobacco isn't as emotional of a topic as guns are, for they don't kill you as quickly. people don't get so hysterical about murders that take place over the course of years.
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Pak Yu Man



Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: The Ida galaxy

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt_22 wrote:
gun deaths are a byproduct of the freedom to own firearms. this is an unfortunate side effect of a society's ability to make their own decisions. not much unlike the freedom to smoke tobacco, which inevitably leads to exponentially greater deaths than guns do. it's just that tobacco isn't as emotional of a topic as guns are, for they don't kill you as quickly. people don't get so hysterical about murders that take place over the course of years.


Nice post. Same with booze and drugs. If guns were so easily available crazy fuks would still find ways of killing people.
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blynch



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt_22 wrote:
gun deaths are a byproduct of the freedom to own firearms. this is an unfortunate side effect of a society's ability to make their own decisions. not much unlike the freedom to smoke tobacco, which inevitably leads to exponentially greater deaths than guns do. it's just that tobacco isn't as emotional of a topic as guns are, for they don't kill you as quickly. people don't get so hysterical about murders that take place over the course of years.


I don't think any of us has a REAL solution so these discussions are just spit in the wind. Sure, if there werent any guns, we'd have to use less efficient means of killing each other, and we wouldn't be able to kill as many. It would seem to me that the solutions are social, and not mechanistic, like just banning guns. We live in a very violent culture, just a little education and money makes us more civilized than those wild Afghans. If we want to curb violence we can come up with some ideas; like reducing violent media, eliminating poverty and giving everyone who is able a college education, end the "glorification" by the media of mass killers (the photo of the VT perp and his life history is all over the media).
Of course, all this is spit in the wind too, because without a police state, we won't or can't acheive those goals. The free market means that the media pander to our baser instincts...violence, sex, etc.. because in the end, excitement of any type is what sells. We won't end poverty, we won't censor the media in the name of freedom of speech and we won't give everyone a top notch educationbecause we "can't afford it" and millions of kids live in families that don't give a damn about education or live in a crappy school district. So, we are doomed to endure mass killers occasionally. The free market media will saturate us with news of this crap whenever it happens, and every schizo with a gun will have dreams of glory and a new world record.
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mack4289



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy access to guns definitely deserves some of the blame. Granted, you don't need guns to massacre people (you can always use sarin gas, car bombs, airplanes, etc) but it does make it a lot easier. No matter where you stand on gun control, you have to admit it seems odd that the USA can have as many dramatic, international headline shootings as we do and still gun control never gets seriously debated. That's probably because the gun rights lobby is so much stronger than the gun control lobby:

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/guns/

"If lawmakers are guilty of tiptoeing around gun control issues, it is because the NRA and other gun rights groups wield an enormous amount of influence in Washington. The source of that influence is money. Gun rights groups have given more than $17 million in individual, PAC and soft money contributions to federal candidates and party committees since 1989. Nearly $15 million, or 85 percent of the total, has gone to Republicans. The National Rifle Association is by far the gun rights lobby's biggest donor, having contributed more than $14 million over the past 15 years. Gun control advocates, meanwhile, contribute far less money than their rivals -- a total of nearly $1.7 million since 1989, of which 94 percent went to Democrats. The leading contributor among gun control advocates is the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, formerly known as Handgun Control, which has given $1.5 million over the past 15 years.
If gun rights groups have a substantial advantage in campaign contributions, they dominate gun control advocates in the area of lobbying. The NRA alone spent nearly $11 million lobbying elected and government officials from 1997 to 2003. But it wasn't the gun rights lobby's biggest spender. That was Gun Owners of America, which spent more than $18 million on lobbing over the same period. By contrast, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence spent under $2 million on lobbying from 1997 to 2003, and the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence spent $580,000.

The National Rifle Association has an additional advantage over all other groups in the debate. As a membership organization, the NRA can spend unlimited funds on communications to its 4 million members that identify pro-gun candidates. Those members also contribute millions of dollars in limited donations to the NRA's political action committee, which runs ads aimed at the general public that expressly advocate the election or defeat of a federal candidate. Since 1989, the NRA has spent more than $22 million on communications costs and independent expenditures, with more than $18 million spent in support of Republican candidates."
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mack4289



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blynch wrote:
Matt_22 wrote:
gun deaths are a byproduct of the freedom to own firearms. this is an unfortunate side effect of a society's ability to make their own decisions. not much unlike the freedom to smoke tobacco, which inevitably leads to exponentially greater deaths than guns do. it's just that tobacco isn't as emotional of a topic as guns are, for they don't kill you as quickly. people don't get so hysterical about murders that take place over the course of years.


I don't think any of us has a REAL solution so these discussions are just spit in the wind. Sure, if there werent any guns, we'd have to use less efficient means of killing each other, and we wouldn't be able to kill as many. It would seem to me that the solutions are social, and not mechanistic, like just banning guns. We live in a very violent culture, just a little education and money makes us more civilized than those wild Afghans. If we want to curb violence we can come up with some ideas; like reducing violent media, eliminating poverty and giving everyone who is able a college education, end the "glorification" by the media of mass killers (the photo of the VT perp and his life history is all over the media).
Of course, all this is spit in the wind too, because without a police state, we won't or can't acheive those goals
. The free market means that the media pander to our baser instincts...violence, sex, etc.. because in the end, excitement of any type is what sells. We won't end poverty, we won't censor the media in the name of freedom of speech and we won't give everyone a top notch educationbecause we "can't afford it" and millions of kids live in families that don't give a damn about education or live in a crappy school district. So, we are doomed to endure mass killers occasionally. The free market media will saturate us with news of this crap whenever it happens, and every schizo with a gun will have dreams of glory and a new world record.


You're saying a police state does a better job of eliminating poverty and providing education than a free state?
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's cuz the white owned CIA be handing out guns to brothas in the hood
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ismail ax



Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blynch wrote:


I don't think any of us has a REAL solution so these discussions are just spit in the wind. Sure, if there werent any guns, we'd have to use less efficient means of killing each other, and we wouldn't be able to kill as many.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones


909 bodies without a gun.
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Bibbitybop



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismail ax wrote:
blynch wrote:


I don't think any of us has a REAL solution so these discussions are just spit in the wind. Sure, if there werent any guns, we'd have to use less efficient means of killing each other, and we wouldn't be able to kill as many.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones


909 bodies without a gun.


Excellent point. There will always be weapons and murder. Poison, blades, chemicals, homemade explosives, etc.

Change starts with compassion and education, not prohibition.
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cangel



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with many of the posts. Gun deaths are a byproduct of America's immense freedoms. However, I do support stricter gun laws and would not be too disappointed if civilians were unarmed. Like the old bumper sticker says, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them".
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