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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: Anglican head Williams says anti-gays misread Bible |
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Well this ought to get everyone away from the VT threads.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/international_anglicans_homosexuality_dc
| Quote: |
PARIS (Reuters) - The spiritual leader of the world's 77 million Anglicans has said conservative Christians who cite the Bible to condemn homosexuality are misreading a key passage written by Saint Paul almost 2,000 years ago.
Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, addressing theology students in Toronto, said an oft-quoted passage in Paul's Epistle to the Romans meant to warn Christians not to be self-righteous when they see others fall into sin.
His comments were an unusually open rebuff to conservative bishops, many of them from Africa, who have been citing the Bible to demand that pro-gay Anglican majorities in the United States and Canada be reined in or forced out of the Communion.
"Many current ways of reading miss the actual direction of the passage," Williams said on Monday, according to a text of his speech posted on the Anglican Church of Canada's Web site.
"Paul is making a primary point not about homosexuality but about the delusions of the supposedly law-abiding."
The worldwide Anglican Communion is near breaking point over homosexuality, with conservative clerics insisting the Bible forbids gay bishops or blessings for same-sex unions. Its U.S. branch, the Episcopal Church, named a gay bishop in 2003.
In fact, Williams also revealed on Tuesday that he had considered canceling the Anglicans' once-a-decade 2008 Lambeth Conference, which has the potential to become a flashpoint over homosexuality.
"Yes, we've already been considering that and the answer is no," he told the Anglican Church of Canada's Anglican Journal.
"We've been looking at whether the timing is right, but if we wait for the ideal time, we will wait more than just 18 months."
In the passage of Romans that Williams referred to in Monday's speech, Paul said people who forgot God's words fell into sin. "Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion," Paul wrote.
Williams said these lines were "for the majority of modern readers the most important single text in Scripture on the subject of homosexuality." But right after that passage, Paul warns readers not to condemn those who ignore God's word.
"At whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself," wrote Paul, the first-century apostle whose epistles, or letters, to early Christian communities elaborated many Church teachings.
NEITHER SIDE WINS
Williams said reinterpreting Paul's epistle as a warning against smug self-righteousness rather than homosexuality would favor neither side over the other in the bitter struggle that threatens to plunge the Anglican Communion into schism.
It would not help pro-gay liberals, he said, because Paul and his readers clearly agreed that homosexuality was "as obviously immoral as idol worship or disobedience to parents."
This reading would also upset anti-gay conservatives, who have been "up to this point happily identifying with Paul's castigation of someone else," and challenge them to ask whether they were right to judge others, he added.
"This does nothing to settle the exegetical questions fiercely debated at the moment," Williams said.
But he said a "strictly theological reading of Scripture" would not allow a Christian to denounce others and not ask whether he or she were also somehow at fault.
Williams warned of the danger of schism.
"The Communion has to face the fact that there is a division in our Church and it's getting deeper and more bitter," he said. "If the Anglican Church divides, everyone will lose."
(Additional reporting by Randall Palmer in Ottawa) |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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I have nothing against homosexuals and I can't really understand why anyone would. It means more girls for me.
Have a good life . Seriously. |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I have nothing against homosexuals and I can't really understand why anyone would. It means more girls for me.
Have a good life . Seriously. |
Until:
!shoosh,
Ryst |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: |
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In today's news:
An Englishmen named, "Rowan" defends homosexuality.
Octavius Hite starts another thread on sexuality.
A dog fetches a stick. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I have nothing against homosexuals and I can't really understand why anyone would. It means more girls for me.
Have a good life . Seriously. |
I'm not against lesbianins.
I'm againts pigs like Rosie too fat O'Donnell
When it's 2 hot chicks getting filthy-what's not good about that? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I'm not against lesbianins.
I'm againts pigs like Rosie too fat O'Donnell
When it's 2 hot chicks getting filthy-what's not good about that? |
Giving straight guys everywhere a bad name. I'm not against straight people, just morons. |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Another mainstream or liberal Christian trying to spin the Bible to make it seem enlightened.
The Bible damns homos. Why waste time and energy pretending otherwise?
More positive ideas and attitudes about sexuality in the West come from Humanism not Christianity. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Anglican head Williams says anti-gays misread Bible |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
Well this ought to get everyone away from the VT threads.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/international_anglicans_homosexuality_dc
| Quote: |
PARIS (Reuters) - The spiritual leader of the world's 77 million Anglicans has said conservative Christians who cite the Bible to condemn homosexuality are misreading a key passage written by Saint Paul almost 2,000 years ago.
Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, addressing theology students in Toronto, said an oft-quoted passage in Paul's Epistle to the Romans meant to warn Christians not to be self-righteous when they see others fall into sin.
His comments were an unusually open rebuff to conservative bishops, many of them from Africa, who have been citing the Bible to demand that pro-gay Anglican majorities in the United States and Canada be reined in or forced out of the Communion.
"Many current ways of reading miss the actual direction of the passage," Williams said on Monday, according to a text of his speech posted on the Anglican Church of Canada's Web site.
"Paul is making a primary point not about homosexuality but about the delusions of the supposedly law-abiding."
The worldwide Anglican Communion is near breaking point over homosexuality, with conservative clerics insisting the Bible forbids gay bishops or blessings for same-sex unions. Its U.S. branch, the Episcopal Church, named a gay bishop in 2003.
In fact, Williams also revealed on Tuesday that he had considered canceling the Anglicans' once-a-decade 2008 Lambeth Conference, which has the potential to become a flashpoint over homosexuality.
"Yes, we've already been considering that and the answer is no," he told the Anglican Church of Canada's Anglican Journal.
"We've been looking at whether the timing is right, but if we wait for the ideal time, we will wait more than just 18 months."
In the passage of Romans that Williams referred to in Monday's speech, Paul said people who forgot God's words fell into sin. "Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion," Paul wrote.
Williams said these lines were "for the majority of modern readers the most important single text in Scripture on the subject of homosexuality." But right after that passage, Paul warns readers not to condemn those who ignore God's word.
"At whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself," wrote Paul, the first-century apostle whose epistles, or letters, to early Christian communities elaborated many Church teachings.
NEITHER SIDE WINS
Williams said reinterpreting Paul's epistle as a warning against smug self-righteousness rather than homosexuality would favor neither side over the other in the bitter struggle that threatens to plunge the Anglican Communion into schism.
It would not help pro-gay liberals, he said, because Paul and his readers clearly agreed that homosexuality was "as obviously immoral as idol worship or disobedience to parents."
This reading would also upset anti-gay conservatives, who have been "up to this point happily identifying with Paul's castigation of someone else," and challenge them to ask whether they were right to judge others, he added.
"This does nothing to settle the exegetical questions fiercely debated at the moment," Williams said.
But he said a "strictly theological reading of Scripture" would not allow a Christian to denounce others and not ask whether he or she were also somehow at fault.
Williams warned of the danger of schism.
"The Communion has to face the fact that there is a division in our Church and it's getting deeper and more bitter," he said. "If the Anglican Church divides, everyone will lose."
(Additional reporting by Randall Palmer in Ottawa) |
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When I read reports like this, I often think of scripture like this.
| Quote: |
1 Timothy 4
Instructions to Timothy
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. |
How can anyone argue what the context of this scriptures means?
| Quote: |
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator�who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. |
You would have to be an absolute fool to believe what Williams wrote. Oh right, that's what scripture says. Nevermind. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Quote: |
I'm not against lesbianins.
I'm againts pigs like Rosie too fat O'Donnell
When it's 2 hot chicks getting filthy-what's not good about that? |
Giving straight guys everywhere a bad name. I'm not against straight people, just morons. |
swisher, post links about ALL Liberal religious leaders and thier takes on homosexuality, not just Christian-you did post you were aaginst all religions-just ask Chairman Mao and freethought, swisher. |
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