Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kermo]

[chriswylson]

"Honestly, I had no idea. I wonder how many dates I've missed out on by not having the courage to sit on my ass."

You still don't get it? If you have to ask a guy out, it means he wasn't interested enough to do it himself. So basically you were wasting your time on those dates. Of course he may well agree to date you for a while, thinking you will be easy to bed, but he will not become any more interested in you because you asked him out.

[storysinger81]

OP,

I wrote a paper on the rhetoric of dating self-help books, so I'm overly familiar with the topic on an academic level. Man was that a fun assignment!

It's a funny book and the basic principle (don't go out with guys who treat you disrespectfully) is a great premise. You have the right idea in not taking it as gospel. It's not as extreme as The Rules (which claim you can't even approach the guy first), but the point is to practice a little restraint so as not to scare off your potential mate and to make sure they are not using you for sex.

Self-restraint (just a tad) is hot in both guys and girls.

Even the guys who have said (on this very thread, no less) that they are cool with a girl asking them out are saying it's because they like being flattered or they're excited by the possibility of bedmate. If you want more than this, it can still be ok to make the first move, but try to be objective in the first couple months about his behavior: does he call when he says he will? does he make sure you know he's interested? does he back off when you say you're not ready for sex yet? does he plan dates in advance? etc. If you're calling him all the time, making all the plans, and such, you may be more invested than he is and not be able to evaluate his behavior clearly for potential signs he is not right for you. That can break your heart.

Ironically, books like that encourage women to look for unbalanced relationships--ones where the man is more into the woman--because it is safer. You are less likely to get hurt playing it that way (both guys and girls), but you're not going to have an equal partnership. Some men prefer it that way and they usually end up with high-maintenance, pretty princesses (not necessarily Princess, but maybe!), just as some women prefer to live in a perpetual state of relationship "drama" around pursuing men who have already demonstrated (by say, sleeping with your best friend or moving to another state/country/continent) that they are not interested. Frankly, many of us (like me) are turned off by either scenario.

Personal experience: My happiest relationships happen to have both started with me pursuing the guy either directly (telling him I was interested) or subtly (flirting and hanging out more one on one until he made a move), but their endings also broke my heart the most (I ended one, he ended the other). They both had a LOT less experience relationship-wise than I did and I believe that had a lot to do with why I had to pursue them and why it didn't work out for me. More mature, experienced, confident men will make the first move if the flirtation is mutual, but there ain't nothing wrong with putting out a strong signal or calling a dude a couple times a week once you know he's interested.

Just don't put up with crap--like cheating, lying, disappearing, and lame excuses--or you'll get a crappy relationship. That was the important thing to take from the book.

Hope that helps. And since I've spent WAY too much time looking at this stuff, I'll tell you that the best book out there for both genders is How Not to Marry a Jerk because it is meaty with both case studies and summaries of research; I definitely don't agree with everything he says (especially the parts about sex), but again, grains of salt should be taken with any self-help book.

[princess]

[Adventurer]

If the woman appears to be too eager and asks you out, that may turn off some males. Men are used to the idea that they ask women out. I usually have to do the asking. The reverse happened, and I didn't really object. I can't see myself objecting. But many men like asking women out.

Men do want women to seem somewhat of a challenge. The author does have a point, but with the way you presented it she wrote too simplistically about this, and she is probably in her mid 40s where things were somewhat different and people were more old-fashioned. A woman who asked you sometimes was seen as too bold, possibly loose. It isn't really seen that way. However, if she sleeps with him on the first night less men are liberal on that score than if she simply asks him out even though the man also did the sleeping, too. Does she have any polling data or scientific data to back her assertion? How does she back it up?
If I am really into a girl and she asks me out or gives me a kiss out of nowhere. I can't see myself objecting.

What idiot would turn out a nice, attractive, charming girl asking him out?
If he objected, he needs to see a shrink.

[endo]

If the girls hot and has a great personality then hell yeah, false!

[piscin]

A friend of mine told me that I'm one of the only two girls she knows who would ask a guy, "Are you gonna kiss me, or what?"

It worked.....

[princess]

I have a case in point that I would like to point out. I thought I did some nutty things in the past chasing a guy, but this takes the cake. I know a Korean man who owns a bar in Shinsa-dong. His girlfriend is also Korean. They have been together for like 5 years, and he still hasn't married her. Here is the weird part. There used to be a PC bang right next door to his bar. Everyday, she would go to his bar at opening time, have dinner with him, then she would go next door and sit at the PC bang all night until the bar closed. Then, she would come back to the bar at closing time. When I would go to this bar, she would periodically walk into the bar, go to the bathroom, and then go back over to the PC bang, as if she were keeping a constant watch on her man. First, he was going to marry her in 2006, and now, supposedly, he will marry her this year in October. I say it will never happen, because she lives her life for him too mcuh. I think this is why he keeps pushing back the date. If they do get married, I say it will be a marriage in which he takes her for granted, because she has no life. What self-respecting woman would do this??? Every time I see her, she doesn't look happy. She even comes in at closing time sometimes and goes to the kitchen and starts cleaning up. So sad. And, I have never seen her with any friends.

[lastat06513]

I am shy....
It takes me alittle while to build up the courage to ask a girl out; alot of it has to do with the "rejection factor" more than anything else....
I am not saying that if a girl were to ask me out, I would jump at the chance nor does it mean I would say "fat chance"...like with women, there are certain factors that have to come into play.....

Princess, in some ways, I cam feel for her because I knew alot of women who were my students, and they would spend some time talking about "their man", but when some of them bring "their man" to the end-of-the-month dinners, the guy seemed so uninterested to be there. And sometimes, I would pass by them having dinner even and they thought it was such a crime to be there with that particular woman....I am talking about a woman that might be seen as a model here in the states, being ignored BIG-TIME in Korea......men don't know how good they have it there....

[Kyrei]

Question:

Are the women participating in this thread who feel that they should wait for men to ask them out currently single?

Take a hint.
Done.

[kermo]

[princess]

[oneofthesarahs]

There is a huge difference between "chasing" a man and actively being the person to make an initial move in a relationship. Guys might not ask a girl out because they're not sure how she feels about him, or from simple shyness.

The type of guy who is offended by a girl asking him out is the sort of person who thinks that men should be in total control of relationships, and thus not the type of guy you should want to date anyway.

[storysinger81]

[Adventurer]