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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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On superacid,
Thanks for the links.
My response was so vocal because you mentioned France and Germany as being participants. They are not, no German or French person there in any military capacity and that you stated such so casually warrants my response. Your link confirms this as "fact" .
Second, never doubted American troops were in Kosovo. They are also in 100+ other countries in the world. Somalia???? You got to be kidding right??? Or are you going to say you have top secret info. from the Stars and Stripes magazine saying they have infiltrated Al Qaeda cells there? Ha....
Your point about the coalition is well taken. But it is old news. Since 2003, most nations have given up the ghost and this coalition is now a tattered rag, barely held together by anything but the fact that it is already there and doesn't know what to do....
As for the thread in general, I don't believe in a gentler military. If the U.S. wants to help anywhere, they should stop exporting soldiers and military hardware and rather export "help": educators, Peace corp, food, books, technology, engineers, media (VOA does a good job) etc......
A kinder military? -- In my experience, it promotes only violence, fear, within its organization. A continual parading of the notion to "hit out', "combat" etc.....those commercials I watch at times on AFN, just make me sick. They are against anything I would hope America truly stands for. The military takes bright young men and make them do horrible things - all for a pay check. They follow the same principals as the Marxists, "get them young".
And yes, you can get fox here... Try downloading TVU.
DD |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
Second, never doubted American troops were in Kosovo. They are also in 100+ other countries in the world. Somalia???? You got to be kidding right??? Or are you going to say you have top secret info. from the Stars and Stripes magazine saying they have infiltrated Al Qaeda cells there? Ha....DD |
The US strikes on terrorist groups in Somalia is common knowlege of anyone who knows anything about the strategic environment of the current conflict. Here's the BBC.. is that top secret enough for you?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6245943.stm
While the news doesn't mention ground forces, anyone with even a basic understanding of US air operations, especially in counterterror, knows that those strikes are guided by special forces operators on the ground.
| ddeubel wrote: |
Your point about the coalition is well taken. But it is old news. Since 2003, most nations have given up the ghost and this coalition is now a tattered rag, barely held together by anything but the fact that it is already there and doesn't know what to do.... |
The point was simply that the war is not just Bush. There IS a coalition. It's old news, but it's still there. You've claimed that "Bush and Co." don't know the war is unwinnable.. I am claiming that there are many other countries' leaders whom are also involved. It isn't just Bush
| ddeubel wrote: |
As for the thread in general, I don't believe in a gentler military. If the U.S. wants to help anywhere, they should stop exporting soldiers and military hardware and rather export "help": educators, Peace corp, food, books, technology, engineers, media (VOA does a good job) etc...... |
The peace corps is a nice-sounding on paper, but digging ditches and building schools is not a systemic solution to world problems. It takes political and often military leadershiip to remove corrupt governments from power. Would the crisis in Rwanda, the Ivory Coast, Somalia have been prevented by the Peace Corps? In the original Somalia situation, the UN was providing substantial food aid, but that aid was being controlled by a warlord. Could the Peace Corps stop Islamic fundamentalist groups from building bombs? When a terror group demands the destruction of the West, the Peace Corps doesn't have much with which to work.
The suggestions for exporting civil assistance, media, etc are effective, but only as a follow-on measure. What good are educators and engineers if the countries in which they serve are controlled by dictators or warlords that would divert the aid efforts towards their own corrupt agendas?
| ddeubel wrote: |
A kinder military? -- In my experience, it promotes only violence, fear, within its organization. A continual parading of the notion to "hit out', "combat" etc.....those commercials I watch at times on AFN, just make me sick. They are against anything I would hope America truly stands for. The military takes bright young men and make them do horrible things - all for a pay check. They follow the same principals as the Marxists, "get them young". |
What commercials "make you sick?" They are cheesy and goofy, but there's hardly anything in those commercials that are negative about the US. You suggest the military takes bright young men and makes them do horrible things. War IS horrible. But someone must do the job. I don't think you could have stopped Osama's murderous aims by killing him with kindness.
Sometimes, it takes well-armed men sneaking through the night to do the things that ensure that you can sleep safely in your bed. Your right to even type these words was was earned from "bright young men doing horrible things." |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| superacidjax wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
Dude, Where do you get your information from? Fox news? Can you even find Iraq on a map? And, the only Americans in Somalia are Somali Americans and I'd also bet a few Marines training others in new and improved means of torture and mayhem....a great, very unpublicized export of America.
DD |
I've been to Iraq you idiot. My operational area was centered at the small northern Iraq town of Al-Bayji. Do you want the grids for my particular area of responsibility? 3456N04329E. Unit? HHC, 3d Battalion, 75th Regiment, US Army. I also spent a considerable amount of time working in Afghanistan and other places in Central Asia. I was a Nuke, Chem, Bio warfare officer, then later worked in a civilian capacity in a related position. Do you want to discuss the nuances of tribal relations in the northern provinces of Iraq? Perhaps you'd like to debate the socio-political dynamic of nearby Tikrit? Do you want to talk about Kurdish political ambitions for autonomy?
So yeah, I can locate Iraq on the map.
What does Fox have to do with anything? Can you get Fox News in Korea? I sure as heck can't.
As far as troop levels and participation of American forces, the unclassified versons are readily available from reputable sources such as Reuters, Agence-France Press, etc.
Yes. The US is operating in Somalia along with Ethiopian troops. Ugandan peacekeepers are due to arrive or may already be there. I don't follow Africa as much because I never worked much there.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/01/mil-070124-voa08.htm
Here's the current unclassified troop breakdown, by country in the Iraq theater of operations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq#List_of_nations_in_the_coalition
Here's something about US troop operations in Kosovo.
http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=41067&archive=true
So while Bush is deserving criticism (as would be any president,) your statement that the "..only one who doesn't it is Bush and Co," is just marinating in ignorance of the UN mandate and the coalition countries individual contributions to the war. Apparently, all of the countries involved in the Iraq situation "don't know" it's allegedly unwinnable.
I'm not supporting or opposing the war, but I do oppose idle amateurs speculating about situations about which they know very little. |
So where are the French, German, and Kiwi troops fighting in Iraq? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| So while Bush is deserving criticism (as would be any president,) your statement that the "..only one who doesn't it is Bush and Co," is just marinating in ignorance of the UN mandate |
First, I never said "Bush and Co...." Second, I detest your assertion that Bush doesn't warrant criticism above and beyond other presidents for his illegal and stupid handling of this ...... Third, what UN mandate?????? This is only with UN control and there has never been any nor ever the appearance of....
Check out his interview with a guy I admire, Koffi Annan..
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0525-13.htm
| Quote: |
The US strikes on terrorist groups in Somalia is common knowlege of anyone who knows anything about the strategic environment of the current conflict. Here's the BBC.. is that top secret enough for you?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6245943.stm |
You write this after writing alot of ignorant stupid lies about Germany France New Zealand.....etc.....
Still more lies... You wrote there were U.S. trooops in Somalia. Do I have to cough up the lines/lies for you? Please don't come here writing a post with such brainwashed , military sound driven drivel and then pretend to be "right" ..... no U.S. troops are in Somalia, do you agree?
We have had several threads here about that .....and I am well aware how the U.S. only wants ITS actors there. No concern of good governance, just those who will buy its arms and do what it wants....this is what I oppose about the U.S. mentality. No respect for sovereign action.
About your other assertions.....especially about idle commentary. I've been following the campaign for an independent Kurdistan since 1978 when I first wrote a newpaper column on the issue. I'd love to argue but don't have the breathe given that you appear so brainwashed and military mundane minded. Also given your pontification of lies, very basic points of arguement that you can't get straight.
Given that, I will drop the attempt to explain to you how bloody violent and aggressive, even the most mundane of AFN commercials are. Let's face it, you are only there for a paycheck. The rest is just to prop up your ego...Your guilt....all this talk of righteous American ways, protecting our soil and the very wrong metaphor of WW!!....
DD |
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KWellsDear
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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ddeubel,
What AFN are you watching?
I see commercials about human-trafficking prevention, learning the local language, motorcycle safety and suicide prevention. They are cheesy and goofy, but they don't seem very violent to me. I guess to you, a particularly racy Barney episode might be considered violent. I guess you are entitled to your opinion. Although, it sounds like you are just anti-military. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| A more caring Military |
Apologise to your enemies after you've killed them? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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ddeubel,
What AFN are you watching?
I see commercials about human-trafficking prevention, learning the local language, motorcycle safety and suicide prevention. They are cheesy and goofy, but they don't seem very violent to me. I guess to you, a particularly racy Barney episode might be considered violent. I guess you are entitled to your opinion. Although, it sounds like you are just anti-military. |
Yes, I'm anti-military. On principle. But I am well aware it is something I have to live with and to change it, it is best to understand it, communicate with it and not make a characature of it. Majority of my friends here are military and I see them as people, doing a job. Judge them as people. The institution, I have a different opinion of and approach towards.
About AFN. Well there is that main commercial which says, "Watch AFN". Two guys batting each other around silly. Also AFN uses combat sports, wrestling as heros. Further, the military's own commercials show people killing and shooting and being patted on the bat -- with an overscore of soft classical music. More revealing is the commercial extolling others in the military to take part in sport. They have pictures of sport with the voice just telling others about contact sports......karate, boxing, etc.....
Promotes violent behaviour. The military has the highest rates of wife battery, suicide and violent acts of any "career".
So I let the empirical evidence speak for itself.....
But I do realize we should reform the military into a protective organization and reorient the "job description" towards a more civilian workforce, as many nations have done....
DD |
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