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demi
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Location: London
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Why has the U.S. never been invaded? The right to bear arms. |
Yea...that's the reason. 
Octavious....well done for putting piggy in his place  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
Its pretty sad when people EXPLOIT the tragedy of the Holocaust to try and score cheap partisan political points, but its not surprising since the same people usually invoke the name of God to justify their own bigotry, ignorance and hatred towards others. |
And the irony of this statement is completely lost on OH.
But, thank you, OH, for saying something so well that I would have liked to have said in my OP. |
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Rum Jungle
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: North Asia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| The Nazi's defeated France, with one of the largest armed forces in the world at the time, they defeated England (until the US helped |
Whoah...back up dude. The Nazis defeated England? You only defeat a country when your soldiers are standing in uncontested posession of the enemy's soil, something that never happened in England in WW2. And in Iraq as of 2007. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Rum Jungle"]
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| Quote: |
| The Nazi's defeated France, with one of the largest armed forces in the world at the time, they defeated England (until the US helped |
Whoah...back up dude. The Nazis defeated England? You only defeat a country when your soldiers are standing in uncontested posession of the enemy's soil, something that never happened in England in WW2. And in Iraq as of 2007. |
yes it has happened in irawq. There are no iraqi miltiary units fighting wars against the US..merelyinsugents.. The iraqi military was EASILY defeated The insurgency however, is not so much. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| newton kabiddles wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Fight off invading armies?? What are you smoking? Is your mother your sister? When was the last time the US was INVADED by a foriegn country? |
Actually he's right. We want the citizens armed in a time of chaos so they can defend themselves against invasion.
Of course this idea of the right to bear arms has been abused and something has to change, but in my opinion it makes good sense to have the right to own a rifle. Few need a handgun, and NO ONE needs a bag of heroin!
Drugs kill more people than handguns. When are we going to get rid of the frugging drugs! How many people overdosed on drugs in the last three days? People are more concerned about the drugs Barack Obama has tried than how he's going to get rid of them! |
When are we going to get rid of the frugging drugs!? We've been trying to get rid of them for several decades and the result of this immensely unsuccessful campaign is record quantities of these drugs on the streets. The enemy has multiplied itself and the sole success of drug illegality is (a) increasing these substances' value several-fold, (b) providing an outstanding income to criminal syndicates (including terrorist groups - see the Opium economy of Afghanistan), (c) making city streets more crime-ridden and unsafe (80% of crime is said to be related to drugs). Here's the 'War on Drugs Clock' courtesy of the Office of National Drug Control Policy in the U.S: http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm At least with tobacco and alcohol-related deaths and social problems, it is somewhat made up for by the revenue raised by (a) taxation of these products, (b) money NOT spent on enforcing prohibition.
Anyway, on handguns, according to the FBI Supplementary Homicide Report data, 1978-1997, handgun homicides hit record highs in the early 1990s, peaking in '93. That year there were 13,258 such killings out of a total of 16,120 firearm homicides. Also, an interesting aspect often not discussed is that the largest category of firearms fatality is suicide, not homicide. In 1997, 54% of all gun deaths were suicides, and 42% were homicides (Hoyert, DL, Kochanek, KD, Deaths: Final Data for 1997. National Vital Statistics Report, 1999). Regarding self-defence, for every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in 1.3 unintentional deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides (Kellermann, AL and Reay, DT. "Protection or Peril?", An Analysis of Firearm-Related Deaths in the Home." NEJM 314:24 (1986):1557-1560).
Whilst this looks very anti-gun and I personally support gun prohibition in mine and other countries, I do not necessarily support gun prohibition in the US because I don't think it's that straightforward. Also, if anyone has any newer information than the above, please post it, because that is quite old. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Whoah...back up dude. The Nazis defeated England? You only defeat a country when your soldiers are standing in uncontested posession of the enemy's soil, something that never happened in England in WW2. And in Iraq as of 2007. |
Sorry, I was getting prettyy frustated talking to bumbletits so I was starting to rant. But without the assistance of the Dominions and the US, England would have starved. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
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| Whoah...back up dude. The Nazis defeated England? You only defeat a country when your soldiers are standing in uncontested posession of the enemy's soil, something that never happened in England in WW2. And in Iraq as of 2007. |
Sorry, I was getting prettyy frustated talking to bumbletits so I was starting to rant. But without the assistance of the Dominions and the US, England would have starved. |
bumbletits? That is the bet you could think of? Seeing how I am not female either so I do not posess acutrements.
Tired? Because I made sense? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Tired? Because I made sense? |
You and sense rarely meet my dear boy.
And bumbletits was for a man, I would never make a mysoginistic comment towards a woman. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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This exchange has gotten rather off-topic. That's normal at this stage of a thread.
OH and I were talking about the horrible exploitation of this tragedy by politicians outside of America.
Any thoughts? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| But without the assistance of the Dominions and the US, England would have starved. |
"The Dominions," Octavius? Inconsequential.
Lend-Lease explains and decisively accounts for Russia and Britain's staying in the game and surviving the Nazi war machine's onslaught, materially at least. As we know, both the Russians and the British fought extremely bravely...
Back to the issue: yes, politicians and others looking for information to show how discredited America is are having a field day (had a field day, at least). Par for the course, Kuros. As high-profile scapegoats since post1945, we make an attractive target for those who would prefer that their peoples and constituencies see something particularly sensationally bad that will distract them from whatever it is that local elites want to conceal... |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| "The Dominions," Octavius? Inconsequential. |
Gopher, try again. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
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| Tired? Because I made sense? |
You and sense rarely meet my dear boy.
And bumbletits was for a man, I would never make a mysoginistic comment towards a woman. |
Oh but sense and I do met, and it wasnt exploitation. The fact is, if every Jew in Germany and other nations had been armed, they wouldnt have shipped them off to camps, or couldnt have. You posted a link about a rebellion by a small # of lightly armed jewish persons. Big difference.
dont take my credit it for it, history is full of people who were disarmed and subsequently exterminated. |
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bangnangja
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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The military has very strict gun control and you seldom hear of shooting rampages, robberies, and driveby shootings on bases in the u.s.
There is also no such thing as being able to carry a concealed weapon on a base......accept maybe for an MP.
Military people can own personal firearms but usually must store them in the base armory and get a permit to check it out.
As far as I know they also don't sell firearms at the base PX.
If such controls seem useful for the military who are professionaly trained in the use of firearms; then why not similar rules for civilians who don't even have to pass a basic safety course before purchasing a gun?
http://www.packing.org/oldtalk/thread/?thread=37685 |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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The military has very strict gun control and you seldom hear of shooting rampages, robberies, and driveby shootings on bases in the u.s.
There is also no such thing as being able to carry a concealed weapon on a base......accept maybe for an MP.
Military people can own personal firearms but usually must store them in the base armory and get a permit to check it out.
As far as I know they also don't sell firearms at the base PX.
If such controls seem useful for the military who are professionaly trained in the use of firearms; then why not similar rules for civilians who don't even have to pass a basic safety course before purchasing a gun?
http://www.packing.org/oldtalk/thread/?thread=37685 |
I believe you sir have just given a biatch slapping to all these gun nuts on the board. Excellent work!
And about the Holocaust (and the fact that I have to explain this to you is really sad), its wasn't like one day the Nazi's woke up and said let's round them all up. When you study it (as I have) you see that in the beginning it was merely using Jews (and us Homo's and commies  jinju) as a scapegoat for econmic problems. Many Jews decided that it wasn't that bad and they could tough it out and it was just empty rhetoric.
Now mind you some did emigrate to western europe and the US and palestine but many stayed figuring, like most historically anti-semitism, it would pass. Even as things got progressivly worse there was always faith that it would pass. As the ghetto started the Nazi's used other Jews to keep people in line. This had the effect of keeping peace and calm and not scaring them into revolt.
If you throw a frog into boiling water he will jump out, but if you put him in water and slowly let it come to a boil he will sit there and die.
Guns would have made no difference for this reason and the fact, THE FACT that the German military machine was the most powerful in the world and a few guns in the hands of Jews probably would have made very little difference. |
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bangnangja
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
I believe you sir have just given a biatch slapping to all these gun nuts on the board. Excellent work!
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Not really my intention but just something I have never seen brought up before on this issue.
People seem to think "gun control" means taking away guns.
All I'm talking about is; licenses, permits, training, armories etc....
If I need a license and health inspection to sell tacos or burgers out of a catering truck then I think similar rules should apply to people using guns. |
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