Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

I'm 34 and have been teaching in Korea for 4 years. I've decided that I want to make teaching my permanent gig and fully switch career tracks.

Current Status

-34 year old Male
-Canadian
-3 Year general BA from a 4-year Canadian University
-very poor grades (lots of Fs, incompletes and lots of A+s - a mixed bag)
-had issues during my University days though and am confident I can do Ph D level work now if I chose to
-not enough credits in any subject to be considered a concentration area as a teacher
-single and no desire to ever have children




Basically, I see two options for me as a Canadian.

1. Become a Certified Teacher in North America

or

2. Continue Teaching ESL Internationally


I've talked to many people about this and this is the gist of what I have gleened:


1. Certified Teacher Route

-would have to spend a year getting my B. Ed
-would then have to spend almost a year unpaid getting certified
-might have to study additional credits at night to qualiofy for any kind of concentration area if I want to teach high school
-2 years + of full-time, unpaid work in Canada + tuition = $40,000+ dollars of debt
-still need to get Masters after that if I really hope to get a good salary one day (more debt)
-many years of "paying dues" at a very low salary and even lower standard of living given costs in Canada
-as a late starter, I'm looking at not making even a decent wage until late 40s or early 50s and that is if I get my Masters early
-difficult to live nicely, save for future, and pay off debt
-decent pension plan - but as a late starter mine won't be so nice
-I'd want to teach High School probably (so even more pre-work studying)

2. ESL Career

-you need Masters and Ph. D if you seriously want to pursue this as a lifetime career
-while you have only a BA you pretty much need to stay in Korea to have a good standard of living
-BUT you can do pretty well for quite awhile in Korea on a BA and can get jobs that allow you the time to get your MAsters and Ph. D while working
-SO I could strect them out over 8 to 10 years and as long as I have Ph D by my mid 40s do quite well while not busting my arse overly much (relatively) getting them
-Nice standard of living esp. if I don't want to hav children
-Once I have Ph D. can eventually teach in differenty countries
-Might have to put in 6 to 9 months on-site at a NA university to get a non-distance MA/Ph D. as distance ones are becoming less suspect
-BUT could afford that by saving up


Part of me would like to return to Canada and beomce a High School History or Social Studies teacher. But it just seems like such a long road to get there and financially, way way way less lucrative in the end. The advantages of being stable and in Canada are a bit lost on someone who doesn't want a family.

Anyone have any comments or experience here? Is the financial side of being a certified teacher really as grim as it looks especially when the advantage sof being in Canada to have a family don't apply to me (I don't mind living around the world and moving around)?

[chriswylson]

Canadian, 3 Year general BA, very poor grades, had issues during my University days, not enough credits in any subject, single:

the verdict is in: stay at your Kindergarten.

[Voyeur]

University was a very long time ago. I'm 34 now. I really didn't want to be there then and spent most of my time in a bottle of Jack Daniels or a large water bong.

Since then I had a career in finance, but when the broker I was working with retired I decided it was not for me and left for Korea. Since then I have done relatively well. I don't teach in a Kindergarten and think that I am a decent teacher.

But thanks for the help.

[TOMODACHI-KID]

"Voyeur,"

You may already know the answer to your questions about continuing your education...

Of course you will have to deal with adversity while attending college again, but that's what sacrifice is all about. Unless, you came from a very wealthy family (mommy and daddy can hand you the duckets for college), then no problem, but then again if you did, you would not be here, sharing your anxieties...

Let me share: I made a decision to suffer a little, a wee bit ago--I went back to college to receive my Masters in Teaching English as a Second Language degree. Anyhow, shit worked out well...When I finished the MA in Tesol...taught Esl and Composition to Undergraduates at a University in the USA, part-time...After a year...needed a change...then taught in Korea for a year, received 2.5 Million Won a month for it...left, went back to teaching in the USA...

It is all subjective, man. You see, if you desire to be complacent and, happy at that, fine! But if you are willing to throw the dice like I did, then great as well!

Years passed since, and now I have two Masters degree, the other being a Masters of Fine Arts in Writing. Sure, it was starvation during the process, but so what. People go through the gaunlet everyday. However, know that major opportunities will open up for you if you decide to follow your longing and complete the journey; that is, when you have your Graduate degree in hand...

Oh, and by the way, since you mentioned that you were a somewhat below average college student, well, Graduate school is tougher. The Graduate committee will question your college performance because a person who intends to attend a Graduate program must have a sufficient GRADE POINT AVERAGE. Usually in the USA--nothing below a 3.0, but varies a little...and your grades my friend...OUCH!

Good luck in your endeavors!

[Homer]

OK...

1. Become a Certified Teacher in North America

or

2. Continue Teaching ESL Internationally

You can do #1 and then choose to continue doing #1 or go back to #2 with better job prospects....

You can also do #2 and do very well as long as you work to improve yourself (courses, training and such).

I am a certified teacher in Canada. I left that to teach abroad (originally the plan was for one or two years....but it has now been a longer...). It really depends on what works best for you and on what is the betetr fit.

I know personally I do not miss my teaching position back home one bit. I do not miss the school politics, the unionized crap that often bubbled to the surface and a few other things. I do miss certain things however.

Here the set works better for me. I am way ahead of the game financially compared to where I would be a as a full time teacher home and I find the teaching here to be fullfilling as well as the consulting work I do.

Some people prefer the more stable permanent position back home. Up to each person to find what fits best for them.

Good luck!

[OiGirl]

Until this year, I alternated between #1 and #2 all of my adult life. The money is really about equal for me, considering daily expenses in the two places, but I'm far happier in Korea.

[Fresh Prince]

That's a tough decision to make. It sounds like you want to get a masters degree regardless regardless of which career you choose.

While some universities don't require the GRE or other admissions tests, if you take them then it will outweigh the gpa that you had as an undergraduate. If you bought enough review material and spent three or four months studying for them, you should be able to score pretty high. There are also plenty of international test hogwans here in Korea that offer testing in GREs, gmats, and other admissions tests. You can also take all those tests in Korea too. If you score high enough on the admissions tests you would probably get a few scholarships which would make the cost of studying, less expensive.

Another option is to choose a field that few people are willing to do. There are some fields of study that you could do a masters in that have a serious shortage of people and are less stringent on admissions, while giving out scholarships for almost the full cost of tuition.

Also, other countries have different programs for becoming a teacher. Some are easier and offer scholarships for international students so they can have a more diverse student population.

[Thiuda]

Hi Voyeur,

I think you've asked a great question, and others have posted good answers. Here's my two Won.

My opinion; follow route two. I started in Korea at 24 with a 3 year BA from a 4 year Canadian University. My marks were OK, but I had things to do in uni other than studying, like working to pay for tuition and rent, so they weren't graduate school material. After a few years in Korea, I got married, had a kid, and made the decision to make Language teaching my career. This meant upgrading my qualifications.

The first thing I did, was move from private institutes to a university. This afforded me the time to pursue part-time, online studies in Applied Linguistics, as well as keep my wife and daughter taken care of. It's not impossible to do if you are well presented, and are prepared to take uni jobs in the sticks (for me it was Andong Nat'l Uni.)

Secondly, as I indicated in the paragraph above, I started studying for my MA. I did a coursework MA in Applied Linguistics online, and, after completing my studies after two years was able to move into a much more favourable position at another university. The MA did cost me ca. 12 million Won, but I have no debt, and the position that I was able to take following graduation more than makes up for the costs involved.

Following the completion of my MA, I decided that I should continue my studies, especially in view of the fact that I had passed all but one of my courses with an A+. Unfortunately, a course work MA doesn't qualify one for PhD level studies, because of the missing research component. So, to rectify this situation, I enrolled in a 'Post-graduate Certificate in Linguistics research' programme with a university in Australia. The programme requires taking a few extra courses in Linguistics research through distance education, and a 20k word dissertation, which I am currently completing. Cost ca. 5 million Won.

Following the completion of my PG Cert in Linguistic Research, I hope to continue studying linguistics further, most likely also via distance education, or online.

All of the work that I've done hasn't taken that long, about three years part-time. Was it difficult? Yes, sometimes, but the workload was (is) manageable, and I've gained a lot of skills I previously lacked. Also, my salary is considerably higher than it was previous to my studies, and I have five month vacations, a very gratifying reward for having put in the time.

I imagine that doing a PhD, or a professional doctorate, will be more difficult and time consuming than what I've done until now, but I've really enjoyed my studies, and look forward to the challenge.

Best of luck to you.

[Jizzo T. Clown]

Voyeur--

You don't need to do an MA and a PhD. An MA is all you'd need. Actually, if you wanted to teach in public schools in the states, you could finish it up in a year and get paid to teach while you're earning it. At least, that's possible in the US. But then you're working in a less-than desirable school district. Maybe Canada has something similar? Look into Alternative Licensure Programs or a Master of Arts in Teaching (MAT) program.

Also, I'd really consider the cost of getting a doctorate versus the benefits you'll gain. You're probably looking at another five years and $40,000 US to get one. Will you really earn that much more? You would of course be qualified to teach linguistics courses at the university level, and may be handed some ESL Composition courses from time to time.

As for standard of living, you can have a good standard of living with only a bachelors just about anywhere. It just depends on what your definition of "comfortable" is.

Hope this helps.

[nene]

In the states, there are many programs that subsidize your MA or MEd while you teach in an underprivileged area. Perhaps there are similar options in Canada? They might be competitive, but surely your experience and enthusiasm to some degree mitigate your uni performance....

[Voyeur]

Thanks for all the great comments.

I'm pretty confident I can get into whichever programs I need for either direction I take. And I belive I can excel at them.

But what I am more concerned about is the financial angle. Before I left for Korea, I was in a job that in the final year made ~$75,000 CDN. I had no car, lived by myself, and had a pretty modest $600 apt. in Canada.

And I was not exactly swimming in money at the end of my day. Granted I was spendthrift then. But still, between the taxes and cost of living and everything else I honestly do way better here in Korea making 4 to 5 Million a month (I have to pay my own apt. here etc... though). I mean I do WAY WAY better here. And even a high school teacher is not going to see 75k for a very long time, if ever. And I'll have like 40K + iin undergraduate loans/debt and maybe 10K+ in Masters to pay off.

Whereas once I am done my Ph. D and am at a university, I could be making the equivalent of what I make now with much better hours (factoring in some sumemr/winter vacation work etc...) by the time I am 45, have a Ph. D and not just a masters, be employable all over the world, and not have 50 to 60k of debt.

Some have said the standard of living is similar taking both routes. But from what I can see and the numbers I have crunched, I just cannot see it. What am I missing? No matter how I look at it, it just seems like I will be much more financially well off in my 40s and 50s taking the ESL route (assuming I get over all the hurdles) than taking the High School teacher route. Sure, being a "true" NA University level Ph. D and instructor and a tenured Prof. in NA would probably be best. But I feel I'm too late in the game for that and probably don't have what it takes for that either. Several TESOL PHDs I have talked to have admitted to me that quite frankly going from BA to tenured Prof at a NA university in a subject like History or whatever is a whole different level of hard than becoming an international TESOL professor. I'm taking them at their word on that one.

So if the choice then is between NA High School teacher and TESOL PHD - how will the standard of living financially compare when I am 45 to 65?

EDIT: I realize I might be able to do that "get paid while you get certified" bit to lessen the debt load from my second year in the cert process. And I'd have to invest regularly for my retirement as a TESOL instructor to make up for not having the NA teacher's pension. But even with that evening the score a bit, doesn't TESOL still seem way ahead financially if you do it right?

[ThePoet]

You are overlooking the possibilities of working WHILE you study. Find a good, reputable university program offered via distance and take one or two courses a semester over a few years while you continue to work in your present situation. This allows you to continue making the kind of money you are and also you will be able to pay cash for your courses without resorting to student loans or the "starving student" route.

There are many good, accredited distance options out there for MA's and some don't require a good previous B.A. transcript. For example, Athabasca University in Canada offers an MAIS and there are no GRE requirements. You can join that program as a non-program student for your first few courses, and if you prove yourself, then you can switch to a program student.

If you want some links for distance programs in ESL/EFL or other programs, email me and I can share them with you.

Poet

[zappadelta]

[Voyeur]

If I get my MA in TESOL ofc I can work.

If I get a MA in something else while teaching in a High School I'd be working then too.

The problem is the year of study I need to get my B. Ed and then additional courses needed to qualify for a concentration at the high school level. And then the year of accreditation after that (although if you teach in needy area you might be able to get paid something during that accreditation year).

[ThePoet]

I know that at the university of Alberta (You did say you went to a Canadian university right?), there are northern assistance scholarships that are available to people entering a professional field (like teacher) who agree to teach 1 for 1 in a northern community. As an example, if you get a northern assistanceship for one year while completing your B.Ed. then you have to agree to teach north of 60 for a year upon graduation.

Its not a bad deal because with the glut in teachers for positions right now, you'd probably have to look up north for a job anyway. Northern jobs also pay more and there is also a northern living allowance that is deducted from your income tax owed.

Although the one I know about is from the U of Eh, I am pretty sure most other Canadian universities will have the same deal. So if you are worried about eating and other basics while attending Uni for certification, this may be the way you can go.

Poet