Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[bucheon bum]

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

BB, could you please answer my question your highness? Has there ever been a more repressed population in modern history than North Korea?

My view, regime change for sure. Though BB I'm a tad dissapointed that your reasons don't include the shocking treatment of the population. Actually, I don't see that even Kim is dumb enough to feel that attacking anyone will get him anything. His ability to expand in the area is seriously checked, and all parties are highly vigilant. I think his nuclear arsenal is for negotiating power. I don't think it will get him what he wants though. But I can see why he thinks it might, as India and Pakistan were both taken more seriously on the world stage after they aquired capability. I really do think that NK will be forcibly taken out at some stage, and I think it will be a good thing. There will be no peacefully negotiated reunification.

[bucheon bum]

Yeah the women living in Afghanistan during the Taliban's reign come close. But a people as a whole? I seriously doubt it, Kim Jong-Il wins the prize for that one.

Yeah, well the treatment of the people... It is a legitimate reason, you're right. Its a shame the leaders of the world don't think so too however.

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[Mosley]

To clarify my earlier comments: sure, all communist regimes are "unique" to a point but all have had the same basic characteristics with the same unhappy result: misery for the great bulk of the population(notwithstanding the nostalgia of a grandparent). As I said, most members of the captive populations of Marxist-Leninist regimes have suffered ABSOLUTE or RELATIVE material deprivation. I have not even mentioned the millions who were murdered in the name of an ideology. So if I seem to suggest that communism was/is "100% bad", so be it if that's "simplistic". How much good can you say about a system that has proven to be a hoax at best and pure evil at worst? The diehard defenders of communism(and no, I'm NOT putting you in that category, BB!) always fall back to Castro's "great strides" in health and education, which even if taken at face value as a great accomplishment, would hardly make up for the crimes and follies of "workers' paradises". As a side point, I haven't heard of many Cubans being nominated for Nobel Prizes since 1959.
Back to North Korea: it is by no means a military dictatorship. The Korean Workers' Party(i.e. Kim himself, ultimately) controls the military. In all communist regimes, the party holds final sway over the armed forces.
So, "what to do?" about NK? My heart favours a forcible regime change but my head doesn't. I fear NK is going to around for a good while yet....

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[bucheon bum]

so why doesn't NZ step up and do the it? .

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[TomPaine]

kiwiboy_nz_99:
I can think about variety of modern states that are as repressive as the North Korean State.
But first you have to come to an understanding of what constitutes as repression. The lack of food and the mass starvation is a tragedy, but is the result of the effects of a historic drought (something that will happen more and more frequently throughout the world), the collapse of the USSR and the continued international isolation spearheaded by the U.S.
That some people eat while other doesn�t is hardly rare � take a look at any country � NZ included. That the government gives the military financial priority isn�t uncommon either. The US, for example, has drastically increased its military spending despite enacting a tax cut � in effect bankrupting several welfare programs, and leaving many states almost bankrupt. The increase in military spending and the tax cuts has the effect of effectively giving the top 1% a massive gain, while reducing the effective resources those at need have access to.
As for my opening statement � try looking at Zimbabwe � they too have a government enforcing mass starvation � only there it�s more cynically motivated as the land can yield viable crops to feed the nation. The reason there aren�t crops is complex but essentially the result of a tyrannical government exploiting food. Also maybe you should look at Sierra Leone, and Liberia � or maybe you don�t like to think about these places.
Also, you should note that in Israel there are similar levels of oppression going on, with thousands of people being oppressed / killed due to their race / political opinion.
While none of these place may be a sever it is worth noting that unlike North Korea, none of these places have had a massive drought that destroyed most of its viable crops and resources, nor are they as diplomatically isolated an unable to readily avail themselves of aid from other nations.
As a final point you should also perhaps consider that the largest suppliers of arms to repressive regimes are the US and the UK. Who armed Iraq (inc. its chemical and biological weapons)? Who is giving Indonesian military their jets? (NZ and Aus. even helps train them). Where did Pakistan get its resources? How about Liberia? Etc.
Perhaps before you start abusing others intelligence for raising questions � whether you deem them relevant or not � you should pause and think.

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[bucheon bum]

tom, try to go to zimbabwe, sierra leone, and liberia. I'm sure you could get in. Once you got into those countries, you wouldn't have government monitors all over your butt, well unless perhaps you were a reporter, and that would only be with zimbabwe. Could you do that in North Korea? not a chance.

And lets say you're from one of those countries and want to leave. Pretty easy to slip across the border into a neighboring country. Not so easy in North Korea these days, especially with China moving a bunch of troops to the border. If you don't live near the Chinese border or well-to-do (by NK standards) you aren't going to be leaving the country any time soon.

With the exception of zimbawbe, you're comparing apples and oranges. Part of the reason there are so many problems in those african countries is because there is no strong central gov't; its the closest thing to anarchy. On the other hand, North korea is the opposite: strongest central gov't in the world.

As for israel, who is getting killed because of their political view? I support the Palestinians and I can't stand Israel's actions, but still.. come on.. let's be reasonable here, the palestinians being assasinated and murdered are responsible for some pretty burtal stuff. Its not like they're just politicians who don't have blood on their hands.

Indonesia is repressive? Yes, to those living in northern Sumatra. But Indonesia IS a democracy is it not? Pakistan does have elections as well. If it didn't, how did Islamic fundamentalists take over two of its provinces??

Yes, the United States is the world's biggest arms dealer. yes, it isn't an angel and is hypocritical. But that has nothing to do with NK being the most repressive regime in the world right now.