Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ddeubel]

Adventurer,

You say some very sane things. I'd like to add one more sane thing. I would hope that Turkey is developed enough to have Gul nominated as a candidate and for a Muslim to rule and govern and lead properly and secularly and with the best interests of all Turks in mind. I think that can happen if indeed, people in Turkey quit screaming fanatically about each others side and forcing people into corners.

I remember the debate in Canada when the Bloc Quebecois were first formed. They made it work despite all the doomsdayers....and I would say they are even in a worse "theoretical" situation vis a vis they don't even represent the interests of "Canada" per say.......

People have to stop the crying, name calling and build an inclusive society and government. Iraq, Canada, Turkey, elsewhere. It is the only way things will work in this "smaller" world...

DD

[postfundie]

[Adventurer]

[quote="ddeubel"]Adventurer,

You say some very sane things. I'd like to add one more sane thing. I would hope that Turkey is developed enough to have Gul nominated as a candidate and for a Muslim to rule and govern and lead properly and secularly and with the best interests of all Turks in mind. I think that can happen if indeed, people in Turkey quit screaming fanatically about each others side and forcing people into corners.

[I will say a few things and then paste something that explains things.
The seculars could outmaneuver AK in the elections, but they are too divided. The AK didn't win a majority in parliament, but they did win a 1/3rd and without a more unified secular team the AK will repeat its results. I think the AK did some good things, but some of their reactionary ideas associated with the past have scared secular Turks]

What triggered this crisis?

It has arisen from the attempt to elect a new president, as the term of the current president Ahmet Necdet Sezer, draws to a close. The start of the election process has sparked a new round of tensions between the country's nationalist, secularist establishment and the ruling AK Party, which has Islamist roots.

In a first round of voting - in parliament on 27 April - the AK Party's candidate, Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, came close to the two-thirds majority needed to win the presidency. But nationalist opposition parties said the result was invalid, because too few members of parliament took part.

The military then flexed its muscles, issuing a statement describing itself as a "staunch defender of secularism" and saying it would make its position clear "when it becomes necessary".

So is this a power struggle between Islamists and secularists?

Not exactly. The AK Party is descended from the banned Welfare Party, which saw Turkey as part of the Islamic world and opposed Turkish membership of the European Union. But the AK Party's leaders have changed their position completely, enacting liberalising reforms to bring Turkey closer to EU membership than ever before.

Some Turks are still concerned, however, that the party may have a hidden agenda to steer the country away from the secular roots laid down by its founder, Kemal Ataturk. Hence the Istanbul protest attended by hundreds of thousands of demonstrators on Sunday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6615627.stm

[ddeubel]

Adventurer,

I must say that I am not an expert on Turkish politics or that well versed in all the details/fine points. I do follow it, but only cursory.

[Adventurer]

[ddeubel]

I liked the wording and arguement of this column. I think you'd agree with most of it Adventurer but I post for others. He makes a strong point against all those who would dismiss "Muslim" leaning parties in countries throughout the world as "kooks" and inelgible to be participants in a civil society. I reject that arguement and so does this author...


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/02/opinion/edsuat.php

[jinju]

What a joke. DD, stop smoking your pipe. What you dont get is the FUNDAMENTAL difference between Christianity and Islam: one teaches peace the other teaches war and aggression. Read Christ's words, he doesnt call followers to war. Muhammad does. Infact look at the two figures and examine their public career. Christ was a teacher. Muhammad was a violent pirate who attacked caravans and murdered enemies.

This is the fundamental difference between the two religions: Christianity these days is a modreate religion, islam is the most violent religion we know ... and getting more violent all the time.

Moderate AK? You must be kidding me. As I said, the Islamists must be kept out of power. If it takes bloodshed to do, then I hope the army is ready to defend the secular Turkish republic.

[ddeubel]

Jinju,

Keep watching your "Behind enemy lines" videos and glorifying destruction. You sound like someone just the same as the "Mohammed" you are labeling. There is no religion that is "war minded" and others "peaceful"......history teaches us that....

Your screams of war, bomb, blow 'em up is juvenile and shows zero intelligence. You quote nothing, show no prior knowledge of issues and just come on line and scream "they are all scum! Kill 'em" ..... I';ll let others judge just how juvenile you are -- but you are juvenile beyond doubt.

DD

[igotthisguitar]

[Adventurer]

[jinju]

[Woland]

Jinju,

I lived in Turkey for seven years. The article that ddeubel presented which has set you off is essentially correct. The fear of Islam that drives some here is simply not supported by AK's actions, nor by conditions in Turkey. See my earlier posts. The argument that AK will turn into something like western Christian Democrat parties if left to their own devices is correct.

The leader of the secular opposition, Deniz Baykal, is as egomaniacal an idiot as you could come up with. He is truly a gift to AK. There are a lot of people who don't like AK, but won't vote for him, either. They know that he represents a return to the corruption of the secular parties that ran Turkey after the 1960 coup and who ruined the economy repeatedly through that time while they looted the state.

Say what you will, but AK has largely kept religion out of politics (Erdogan's efforts on adultery and banning alcohol were properly shot down), improved Turkey's relations with Europe, and got inflation into single digits (I was there for the last 90% year; this is great), raisingg foreign investment enormously. Gul is a very smart, reasonable guy. If he had the charisma of Erdogan, he would likely be a better prime minister.

The secular parties have made a great mistake. At a minimum, AK will maintain its majority. If only one secular party passes the 10% barrier (only the CHP, ANAP, and the fascists, MHP, have a chance), they will increase it, enough that they will be able to amend the consitution on their own. At an extreme, the presidency will become a popularly elected position, and in the next election, Erdogan will run and win. And the secularists will rue the day they turned down Abdullah Gul (Gul would clearly be better as president than Erdogan). Letting Gul be elected now would have given them a better chance of cutting the AK majority in the fall elections. But that's gone now. These are not bright guys you are pulling for.

[Adventurer]

[postfundie]

Indonesia..so full of religious peace

[ddeubel]