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Global warming rhetoric reaches new ridiculous level

 
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enns



Joined: 02 May 2006

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Global warming rhetoric reaches new ridiculous level Reply with quote

Quote:
May assailed for 'Nazi' remark
'Over the top'. Green leader likened Baird's climate plan to appeasement

JACK AUBRY
CanWest News Service

Wednesday, May 02, 2007

Environment Minister John Baird makes a point during question period in the Commons yesterday.
CREDIT: JONATHAN HAYWARD, CP
Environment Minister John Baird makes a point during question period in the Commons yesterday.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservatives denounced the Liberals' recent partnership with Green leader Elizabeth May, following her comments comparing the government's new environment plan to Neville Chamberlain's appeasement of the Nazis.

Reading a letter from the Canadian Jewish Congress of Canada to the House of Commons during question period, Harper said Liberal leader Stephane Dion should distance himself from May because her comments had diminished "the Holocaust, and using Nazi analogies are inappropriate."

During a scrum later in the Commons lobby, Dion appeared to do just that, agreeing that May's comments were not appropriate and should be withdrawn.

He said he was uncomfortable with the analogy and added he understood the Jewish Congress's reaction, since analogies to the Nazis were becoming all too common in debate.

"Climate change is worrisome enough and we don't need to go over the top," Dion said.

Meanwhile, in a speech in London, Prince Charles compared the challenge of tackling climate change to the Allies' struggle in the Second World War. "We can do it, just think what they did in the last war," he said.

May said the Conservatives are obviously trying to deflect attention away from their "climate disaster plan" by distorting her comments on the weekend.

"I want to speak to the Canadian Jewish Congress to clear up any misunderstanding. I fully respect their concerns on this and I am fully aware that making comparisons with the Holocaust is a 'no-go zone' and the Nazis were in a class of evil all of their own," May said.

NDP leader Jack Layton also called May's remarks "unfortunate" and "inappropriate."

The Green Party released a statement on its website yesterday, saying there were several misconceptions about her comments at a church in London, Ont., when May compared the Conservatives' stance on climate change to "a grievance worse than Neville Chamberlain's appeasement of the Nazis."

"Some have reported that Ms. May compared Prime Minister Stephen Harper to a Nazi. This is far from true," said the website statement.

Yesterday during question period, Environment Minister John Baird said May had also made offensive comments about evangelical Christians on Sunday.

"The invoking of the Nazi era by the Green Party leader in order to score some political points is insensitive to those who lived through this dark time. We are also concerned by Miss May's reported remarks, which suggest that fundamentalists of the evangelical Christians are somehow awaiting the destruction of the environment and the world from greed. These comments are deeply offensive," Baird said.

Liberal MP Glen Pearson, who invited May to speak to his church after defeating her in a by-election in London-North-Centre riding, said later he had not been comfortable with the analogy to the Nazis, either, and believes it perhaps crossed the line for proper discourse in a church.

Ottawa Citizen
� The Gazette (Montreal) 2007



And the worst part is that Elizabeth May hasn't retracted her statement yet, she actually stands by the passage that she quoted. The science of GW has gone out the window over the past year and has been replaced with some of the most absurd rhetoric imaginable. Let's stop with the gloom and doom scenarios, ridiculous analogies, and half truths. Let the science do the speaking.
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with enns - there is too much overblown rhetoric about global warming.

From the April 30 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program:

Quote:
BECK: I go on vacation for three days, and I decide to take my family away. And I'm there at the beach, and we're reading. And I take -- my wife takes some magazines and stuff, and we take the books for the kids, and I take The Years of Extermination [HarperCollins, March 2007]. It's a new book. And I just -- 'cause it's, like, 800 billion pages thick. I'm just not going to have the time to read it. And I'm doing some research right now for some other thoughts that I have that are probably six months away from percolating.

And I'm reading this book trying to do some research. And what this book is, is how do you get people to kill people? How do you get -- not just Germany -- all of Europe to kill the Jews. To round them up and kill them. How do you do that? That's what this book is about. And it is a phenomenal -- it is scarier than Mein Kampf. I read Mein Kampf because -- that was my first foray into evil. And I read Mein Kampf, and I read it because I wanted to know -- did the Germans know?

Now, here's a book that outsold the Bible in World War II. Did they know? They clearly did. Why this book, The Years of Extermination, is more frightening is the whole world knew. And when you see what was in the papers at the time -- I kept reading it going, "Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I have read these things in some places about the Jews, in some places about what's coming in other places on global warming. I have seen these things happening right now." And I understand World War II much, much better because we're here again, gang. We are here again.

And I read this one part on global warming about how they got -- what was the first thing they did to get people to exterminate the Jews. Now, I'm not saying that anybody's going to -- you know Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization. The goal is global carbon tax. The goal is the United Nations running the world. That is the goal. Back in the 1930s, the goal was get rid of all of the Jews and have one global government.

You got to have an enemy to fight. And when you have an enemy to fight, then you can unite the entire world behind you, and you seize power. That was Hitler's plan. His enemy: the Jew. Al Gore's enemy, the U.N.'s enemy: global warming.


So, I read this paragraph -- and I must have read it, like, five times because I just kept going, "Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh." And I think I'm in a unique situation because I've heard from so many people, you've heard from so many people calling in and saying these things on the show.

Here's how they did it. First thing they did was they found a group of scientists that believed in eugenics, which basically is, "Breed your way to better people! Eugenics! Get rid of the defects, get rid of the races that aren't so strong. Breed a master race." For as insane, as insidious, and as out-and-out evil as it sounds today, believe it or not, in the 1920s and 1930s, that was cutting-edge science. And they said, "That is the answer. We can breed a master race." That's were the master race comes from: science and scientists. It was called eugenics.

So, Hitler took the master-race idea and eugenics -- an accepted, mainstream scientific belief -- and he got all the biggest scientists to come out and say, "This is it. This is the answer. It's the damn Jews. We get rid of the Jew bloodline, and we're fixed."

Now, how did you convince all of Europe to do it? You needed to have fear. You needed to have the fear of starvation. You needed to have the fear of the whole place going to hell in a handbasket. Which -- do we have that fear now with global warming? I mean, they're telling us things in Al Gore's global warming special that are not true, that the seas will rise 20 feet. Even the U.N. says that's not true. So you got to have the fear, we're all going to die.

Then you get the scientists -- eugenics. You get the scientists -- global warming. Then you have to discredit the scientists that say, "That's not right." And you must silence all dissenting voices. That's what Hitler did. That's what Al Gore, the U.N., and everybody on this global warming bandwagon -- all the way to RFK Junior, who has called me a fascist for doing it -- all the way over to the global warming special that happened over in London a couple of weeks ago that is fantastic.


Pretty incredible stuff. From here.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arctic summer ice gone by 2020.

Yeah, it's all overblown.

Rolling Eyes

Read the article posted on this board.
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enns



Joined: 02 May 2006

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gang, we agree completely on this one, I guess. Both sides are turning the rhetoric up and it's not helping the debate
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of the absolute STUPIDIST posts on any subject I have ever seen. You bring a radio hosts view of some asinine book comparing the global warming SCIENCE to Hitler and the Holocaust? Are you out of your freaking mind?

Go look at the ice. It's melting. Go look at Tuvalu; it's going under. Go look at Bangladesh; it's going under. Go track the northward and upward expansion/movement of species...

Christ...

gang ah jee wrote:
I agree with enns - there is too much overblown rhetoric about global warming.

From the April 30 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program:

Quote:
BECK: I go on vacation for three days, and I decide to take my family away. And I'm there at the beach, and we're reading. And I take -- my wife takes some magazines and stuff, and we take the books for the kids, and I take The Years of Extermination [HarperCollins, March 2007]. It's a new book. And I just -- 'cause it's, like, 800 billion pages thick. I'm just not going to have the time to read it. And I'm doing some research right now for some other thoughts that I have that are probably six months away from percolating.

And I'm reading this book trying to do some research. And what this book is, is how do you get people to kill people? How do you get -- not just Germany -- all of Europe to kill the Jews. To round them up and kill them. How do you do that? That's what this book is about. And it is a phenomenal -- it is scarier than Mein Kampf. I read Mein Kampf because -- that was my first foray into evil. And I read Mein Kampf, and I read it because I wanted to know -- did the Germans know?

Now, here's a book that outsold the Bible in World War II. Did they know? They clearly did. Why this book, The Years of Extermination, is more frightening is the whole world knew. And when you see what was in the papers at the time -- I kept reading it going, "Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I have read these things in some places about the Jews, in some places about what's coming in other places on global warming. I have seen these things happening right now." And I understand World War II much, much better because we're here again, gang. We are here again.

And I read this one part on global warming about how they got -- what was the first thing they did to get people to exterminate the Jews. Now, I'm not saying that anybody's going to -- you know Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization. The goal is global carbon tax. The goal is the United Nations running the world. That is the goal. Back in the 1930s, the goal was get rid of all of the Jews and have one global government.

You got to have an enemy to fight. And when you have an enemy to fight, then you can unite the entire world behind you, and you seize power. That was Hitler's plan. His enemy: the Jew. Al Gore's enemy, the U.N.'s enemy: global warming.


So, I read this paragraph -- and I must have read it, like, five times because I just kept going, "Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh." And I think I'm in a unique situation because I've heard from so many people, you've heard from so many people calling in and saying these things on the show.

Here's how they did it. First thing they did was they found a group of scientists that believed in eugenics, which basically is, "Breed your way to better people! Eugenics! Get rid of the defects, get rid of the races that aren't so strong. Breed a master race." For as insane, as insidious, and as out-and-out evil as it sounds today, believe it or not, in the 1920s and 1930s, that was cutting-edge science. And they said, "That is the answer. We can breed a master race." That's were the master race comes from: science and scientists. It was called eugenics.

So, Hitler took the master-race idea and eugenics -- an accepted, mainstream scientific belief -- and he got all the biggest scientists to come out and say, "This is it. This is the answer. It's the damn Jews. We get rid of the Jew bloodline, and we're fixed."

Now, how did you convince all of Europe to do it? You needed to have fear. You needed to have the fear of starvation. You needed to have the fear of the whole place going to hell in a handbasket. Which -- do we have that fear now with global warming? I mean, they're telling us things in Al Gore's global warming special that are not true, that the seas will rise 20 feet. Even the U.N. says that's not true. So you got to have the fear, we're all going to die.

Then you get the scientists -- eugenics. You get the scientists -- global warming. Then you have to discredit the scientists that say, "That's not right." And you must silence all dissenting voices. That's what Hitler did. That's what Al Gore, the U.N., and everybody on this global warming bandwagon -- all the way to RFK Junior, who has called me a fascist for doing it -- all the way over to the global warming special that happened over in London a couple of weeks ago that is fantastic.


Pretty incredible stuff. From here.
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFLtrainer wrote:
This is one of the absolute STUPIDIST posts on any subject I have ever seen. You bring a radio hosts view of some asinine book comparing the global warming SCIENCE to Hitler and the Holocaust? Are you out of your freaking mind?

Go look at the ice. It's melting. Go look at Tuvalu; it's going under. Go look at Bangladesh; it's going under. Go track the northward and upward expansion/movement of species...

Christ...

Huh? I was just agreeing with enns that some people take the rhetoric too far, and comparing the science of global warming to Nazi eugenics is disgusting. I don't see what your problem is here.
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Safron



Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not disputing that climate change is happening, nor that pollution is bad for people and the environment, but I'm wondering if the correct cause is being recognized. Why are the ice caps on Mars melting too?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

Nasa has information on this too. Where did this news story get lost to?[/url]
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Safron wrote:
I'm not disputing that climate change is happening, nor that pollution is bad for people and the environment, but I'm wondering if the correct cause is being recognized. Why are the ice caps on Mars melting too?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

Nasa has information on this too. Where did this news story get lost to?[/url]


Don't know. But let me make this observation: Mars has virtually no atmosphere, so pretty much anything the sun does is going to affect it pretty directly. This is not true of the Earth.

Further, there are SO many possible variables and differences between Earth and Mars that to conclude Mars = Earth is a huuuuge reach.
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Safron wrote:
I'm not disputing that climate change is happening, nor that pollution is bad for people and the environment, but I'm wondering if the correct cause is being recognized. Why are the ice caps on Mars melting too?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

Nasa has information on this too. Where did this news story get lost to?[/url]


The reason was given on page two: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming_2.html

"The conventional theory is that climate changes on Mars can be explained primarily by small alterations in the planet's orbit and tilt, not by changes in the sun.

"Wobbles in the orbit of Mars are the main cause of its climate change in the current era," Oxford's Wilson explained. (Related: "Don't Blame Sun for Global Warming, Study Says" [September 13, 2006].)

All planets experience a few wobbles as they make their journey around the sun. Earth's wobbles are known as Milankovitch cycles and occur on time scales of between 20,000 and 100,000 years.

These fluctuations change the tilt of Earth's axis and its distance from the sun and are thought to be responsible for the waxing and waning of ice ages on Earth.

Mars and Earth wobble in different ways, and most scientists think it is pure coincidence that both planets are between ice ages right now.

"Mars has no [large] moon, which makes its wobbles much larger, and hence the swings in climate are greater too," Wilson said. "


----------

If there is any scientific evidence in favor of heightened solar activity being the cause of climate change on both planets, I'd be interested in reading it.

In any case, even if the sun is indeed warming its planets more, increased (manmade) co2 in the atmosphere will exaccerbate the problem on Earth, won't it?
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPINOZA wrote:

----------

If there is any scientific evidence in favor of heightened solar activity being the cause of climate change on both planets, I'd be interested in reading it.

In any case, even if the sun is indeed warming its planets more, increased (manmade) co2 in the atmosphere will exaccerbate the problem on Earth, won't it?


No. 2+2=6.
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to mock or anything, but do you think Safron missed page two?
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