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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: ADULTERY: A CROSS-CULTURAL STUDY |
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From Reuters:
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U.S. spouses cheat like the French, but feel worse
By Michele Gershberg
Men in South Africa say they cheat instead of taking second or third wives, Americans lament that love has died in their marriages, and the Japanese believe ex-marital sex isn't adultery if they pay for it. These are just a few of the cultural excuses for cheating on one's spouse as recorded by Pamela Druckerman, author of a new comparative look at infidelity titled "Lust in Translation: The Rules of Infidelity from Tokyo to Tennessee." On a world scale, men in African countries from Togo to Mozambique were most likely to have taken another sexual partner in the last 12 months, with as many as 37 percent saying they had been unfaithful in that time, according to data compiled by Druckerman. While the French may be the first to eroticize illicit sex in movies and books, only 3.8 of married men and 2 percent of women in France admitted to having affairs. They were outdone by the strait-laced citizens of the United States, where acknowledged rates of cheating came to 3.9 percent of men and 3.1 percent of women. But on a national average, U.S. adulterers were much more likely to beat themselves up over it. A former Wall Street Journal reporter who has worked in Europe, the Middle East and Latin America, U.S. expat Druckerman was struck by her own strong reactions against the idea of infidelity as compared to more cavalier attitudes abroad. "I thought you could often understand a country better by looking at the rules in people's private lives. It really reveals the values of a culture," Druckerman said in an interview. "Americans have gotten more tolerant on practically every major sexual issue from having a child out of wedlock to divorce ... and homosexuality," she said. "We're more accepting of all these issues except infidelity, where we've gotten stricter." Even more telling were views on the evils of adultery. While some 6 percent of Americans in one survey said it was acceptable to cheat in some or all circumstances, nearly 40 percent of Russians polled saw no problem with it. On a broad scale, men in poorer countries were the most likely to cheat, or in places rife with political and economic upheaval such as Russia or China. But within countries, rates of cheating varied hugely within sub-cultures or even city neighborhoods, Druckerman's found. "Much more important than any religious law or law of the land is what your friends and colleagues are doing," she said. Filled with titillating anecdotes -- including the story of a 1950s housewife who would arrange double dates with her husband, her lover and his wife -- Druckerman most closely compares her findings overseas with U.S. mores. In particular, Americans seem to adhere to a well-defined script on adultery in which sex outside the marriage amounts to the ultimate act of dishonesty, one that could require years of repentance and therapy to resolve, Druckerman said. "The message is even a one-night stand can paralyze a marriage," she said. "Then you have this idea in America that you're sort of bursting with this knowledge of the affair and can never be whole until you confess." "I tend to be sympathetic to the French idea that some truths are better left unspoken." |
Nothing in this article surprises me. HIV is spreading at an alarming rate in sub-Sahara Africa in large measure because of relatively frequent promiscuity, but it isn't politically correct to discuss it. (Incidentally, two college classmates of mine who joined the Peace Corps after graduation were stationed in the Cameroons and in Tanzania. Neither was attractive by their own admission, or rich, yet they wrote letters describing how many girls, ages 13 to 20, used to visit their tents in the evening hoping to sleep with them without any real ulterior motive. And these were nerdy guys who balked at such overtures.) Easier to blame Western drug companies for the epidemic.
Russia, as we all know, is very corrupt and religion was nearly destroyed by the communists, so the attitude of cheating in general has become entrenched. Despite their reputation, the French adhere to their Catholic faith far more than many other Europeans. And the Chinese government has kept religion down for so long it's no wonder adultery abounds. Then again, having disposable income has led to a resurgence of mistress-taking in China, which is condoned throughout East Asia. Even former president Jiang Zemin had a mistress. Here in Korea you've got all those love motels which ain't just occupied by cavorting married couples and singles despite what many Koreans would want us to believe. As for subcultures: black America is sexually promiscuous nowadays to a destructive degree. According to the 2000 U.S. Census, compiled by the Clinton Administration, 71% of all black babies are born out of wedlock. Small wonder given the glamorization of pimping in urban music. Again, it's not politically correct to say so.
And just why is it Americans tend to resist committing adultery more than most places? Of course, it's the strong religious indictment against it. True, divorce is widely accepted and provides an outlet for many but doesn't explain the wide gap between rates of adultery with other nations. I'd love to know what it is in the Middle East. I know that many Muslim men go apesh-it when travelling abroad. I've seen it firsthand. And more than a few force relationships on their mostly Filipina servants. But that's not P.C. to mention, either, is it? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:22 am Post subject: |
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What a pile of racist crap. Did you not read the part where Americans cheat MORE than the French? And, where in the article did it mention race? It didn't. And how does "cheating" equate to out-of-wedlock births?
Disgusting spin. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| IS THERE A CROSS-CULTURAL STUDY RE: ABUSING THE CAPSLOCK KEY IN AN ATTMEPT TO GET MORE ATTENTION ON MESSAGE BOARDS? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Steve McGarette: THE MORAL minority.
DD |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: ... |
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| CAN YOU PLEASE POST THE LINKS TO YOUR DRIVEL? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: ADULTERY: A CROSS-CULTURAL STUDY |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Nothing in this article surprises me. HIV is spreading at an alarming rate in sub-Sahara Africa in large measure because of relatively frequent promiscuity, but it isn't politically correct to discuss it. (Incidentally, two college classmates of mine who joined the Peace Corps after graduation were stationed in the Cameroons and in Tanzania. Neither was attractive by their own admission, or rich, yet they wrote letters describing how many girls, ages 13 to 20, used to visit their tents in the evening hoping to sleep with them without any real ulterior motive. And these were nerdy guys who balked at such overtures.) Easier to blame Western drug companies for the epidemic.
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Interesting. I've never heard anyone 'blame Western drug companies for the epidemic. ' Promiscuity and lack of safe sex practice is the only thing I've ever seen blamed for it. Western drug companies aren't blamed for the epidemic. They are criticised for pricing their drugs too high to help alleviate it. Perhaps this is too finer a point for you. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to sleep around, perhaps the reality of AIDS is the price you pay.
I practiced law in Canada and in that time I defended 6 murder case. Of that six, four invloved cheating wives. AIDS is not the only risk.
By they way none of the 4 were convicted of murder but only of manslaughter. The jury agreed that adultery was provocation. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Where does Sweden and Scandinavia figure into this. Of course, I am not talking about adultery, but Steve mentioned African Americans having so many children out of wedlock because the implication is so many of these African American children then end up in trouble. That may be quite true. However, the Swedes are promiscuous, but they have very low rates of HIV and teenage pregnancy. So there are many things to look at. Part of the reason the Swedes don't have the same problems is because they are far more educated, there is far more invested in their people than what is invested in the American people and the African Americans are treated like the bottom of the barrel, in my opinion. As far as adultery and France, many French couples have so-called common law style marriages or co-habitation which violate the principles of the church, but the French seem to be happy. I suppose these are marriages, in a way, but they are not sanctioned by the church. Obviously, a lot of adultery can lead to a lot of instability in a country. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Adventurer:
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| So there are many things to look at. Part of the reason the Swedes don't have the same problems is because they are far more educated, there is far more invested in their people than what is invested in the American people and the African Americans are treated like the bottom of the barrel, in my opinion |
Well, you got the first half write; the second part is pure bleeding heart platitude that has no basis in reality. The majority of blacks no longer live in poverty and receive far more educational opportunities than their predecessors, not to mention affirmative action run amok. So that same ol' song and dance won't cut it any more.
Big Bird:
Of course, it's not the prevention thing I was referring to but the spread of misery brought on by AIDS wiping out entire families. Promiscuity breeds HIV. Take that ostrich head out of the sand and face the music, dearie.
Aptly named Nowhere Man:
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| CAN YOU PLEASE POST THE LINKS TO YOUR DRIVEL? |
I could, but I won't. If it's such drivel, why would you bother to read it? Ever heard of the Google search engine? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="stevemcgarrett"]Adventurer:
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| So there are many things to look at. Part of the reason the Swedes don't have the same problems is because they are far more educated, there is far more invested in their people than what is invested in the American people and the African Americans are treated like the bottom of the barrel, in my opinion |
Well, you got the first half write; the second part is pure bleeding heart platitude that has no basis in reality. The majority of blacks no longer live in poverty and receive far more educational opportunities than their predecessors, not to mention affirmative action run amok. So that same ol' song and dance won't cut it any more.
Actually, it is based on reality. I worked in the projects. Did you? I knew of crimes and bad things in the inner city that just wouldn't hit the news.
Katrina speaks volumes. Affirmative action doesn't mean black people aren't neglected. Don't take this as a support of affirmative action for black or hispanic people; I don't support that. I support it for people who are in poverty and making some effort to get somewhat decent grades regardless of their race.
Back to my issue, the Swedes invest in their people a lot, and that has an effect on how they deal with things. They are more educated, in general, than American whites or blacks and have lower teenage pregnancy rates,
HIV rates etc... You can take any race and compare them to the Swedes. And, the Swedes, are far less religious than Americans. You could also take Canadians and get lower results than people in America, I am guessing. I bring that up because you take the concept of religion and assume that the more there is religion the more there is order.
The concept of religion is also relative, to be philosophical. Canada has a lower divorce rate in the U.S. Does it mean Canadians are more religious? Religion discourages divorce. I am just saying the way you are approaching this is somewhat skewed and unscientific. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
If you want to sleep around, perhaps the reality of AIDS is the price you pay.
I practiced law in Canada and in that time I defended 6 murder case. Of that six, four invloved cheating wives. AIDS is not the only risk.
By they way none of the 4 were convicted of murder but only of manslaughter. The jury agreed that adultery was provocation. |
Based on this post, I sure hope French is your L1. Note the dearth of wives killing husbands... even though men cheat more often. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| the Swedes invest in their people a lot, and that has an effect on how they deal with things. |
Sweden vs. US: equal levels of taxation.
Sweden vs. US: Far more for your taxes in Sweden.
Hmm.... |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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EFL
The wives died (including one lover "shot in the saddle" as it were. Two counts of murder reduced to two counts of manslaughter.
Cheating is not without risk. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder what rates of infidelity are like in the Muslim world? |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| With female circumcision probably not too many women. No incentive. |
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