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KOREAN_MAN
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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 Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: Study of NBA Sees Racial Bias in Calling Fouls |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/sports/basketball/02refs.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
David Stern, the NBA commissioner, is furious that the New York Times would release such an article. At the same time, he's not proving the study wrong with any data. Most people, including NBA players, think that the study is flawed and perhaps the people who conducted the study are just flat-out stupid. I think there's more to it than that. The police also shows some similar behaviors toward blacks, so why is it so surprising that it's also occurring in the NBA? 
Last edited by KOREAN_MAN on Sun May 06, 2007 1:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Uhh... isn't the NBA like 90% black?
Kind of like discovering that most of the people who eat kimchi are Korean. |
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jeffkim1972
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Location: Mokpo
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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The reason it could be flawed is that.
1) Not broken down into experience of Refs or players.
2) Home team versus Road Team
3) Foul called on a black player committing against black or white player.
4) Where does Yao Ming fit in?
5) Offensive or defensive fouls?
6) situational fouls - late in the game, foul to get the ball back, shaq-attack.
any many others. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
The reason it could be flawed is that.
1) Not broken down into experience of Refs or players.
2) Home team versus Road Team
3) Foul called on a black player committing against black or white player.
4) Where does Yao Ming fit in?
5) Offensive or defensive fouls?
6) situational fouls - late in the game, foul to get the ball back, shaq-attack.
any many others. |
I just read the article and I think that 1, 2 and 6 are directly mentioned. 4 and 5 seem irrelevat and I'm not sure about 3. Why would it matter?
A very interesting read and not really surprising. I'll wait until ppl with more knowledge of statistics chime in. |
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KOREAN_MAN
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
Uhh... isn't the NBA like 90% black?
Kind of like discovering that most of the people who eat kimchi are Korean. |
They're looking at the ratio or percentage. The sheer volume doesn't matter. |
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Tarmangani
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: the Calm
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| The quality white players, the ones not riding the bench, are mostly finesse players who are all very soft on defense. It's hard to foul out if you live behind the arc on offense and as a spectator on defense. |
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TheBrain
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Acme Lab
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| What white players? It's all black. This is ridiculous. |
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dutchy pink
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: |
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The simplest explanation...
White people are just better basketball players than black people, and thus, foul less. |
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jeffkim1972
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Location: Mokpo
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
The reason it could be flawed is that.
1) Not broken down into experience of Refs or players.
2) Home team versus Road Team
3) Foul called on a black player committing against black or white player.
4) Where does Yao Ming fit in?
5) Offensive or defensive fouls?
6) situational fouls - late in the game, foul to get the ball back, shaq-attack.
any many others. |
I just read the article and I think that 1, 2 and 6 are directly mentioned. 4 and 5 seem irrelevat and I'm not sure about 3. Why would it matter?
A very interesting read and not really surprising. I'll wait until ppl with more knowledge of statistics chime in. |
3. White ref, white man drives to the hoop, black man defends. According to the study, most likely the white ref will call a defensive foul, and the black ref will call an offensive foul. Reverse the roles and so forth. total of 8 scenarios.
Black man defends black man - Black ref
Black man defends white man - black ref
Black man defense black man - white ref
Black man defends white man - white ref
white man defends black man - Black ref
white man defends white man - black ref
white man defense black man - white ref
white man defends white man - white ref
4. Yao has probably committed the most fouls in the NBA last year or every year since he's been in the league. It's not just a black or white issue.
5. See 3. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
The reason it could be flawed is that.
1) Not broken down into experience of Refs or players.
2) Home team versus Road Team
3) Foul called on a black player committing against black or white player.
4) Where does Yao Ming fit in?
5) Offensive or defensive fouls?
6) situational fouls - late in the game, foul to get the ball back, shaq-attack.
any many others. |
I just read the article and I think that 1, 2 and 6 are directly mentioned. 4 and 5 seem irrelevat and I'm not sure about 3. Why would it matter?
A very interesting read and not really surprising. I'll wait until ppl with more knowledge of statistics chime in. |
3. White ref, white man drives to the hoop, black man defends. According to the study, most likely the white ref will call a defensive foul, and the black ref will call an offensive foul. Reverse the roles and so forth. total of 8 scenarios.
Black man defends black man - Black ref
Black man defends white man - black ref
Black man defense black man - white ref
Black man defends white man - white ref
white man defends black man - Black ref
white man defends white man - black ref
white man defense black man - white ref
white man defends white man - white ref
4. Yao has probably committed the most fouls in the NBA last year or every year since he's been in the league. It's not just a black or white issue.
5. See 3. |
I don't think they are measuring black on white fouls or vice versa. I think your example is flawed. A better example would be white drives on black player, marginal charging foul, could go either way. Black ref calls it, white ref doesn't. This is about very small margins. I don't see the difference between the offensive and defensive calls. The survey uses all the foul data and determined which referees made the call. As far as I could tell from the article, they chose white and black players and just counted their fouls and which refs(what race) gave them. They didnt go into individual situations as the point was to look at the overall numbers. The sheer amount of data should iron out any situational oddities.
As regards Yao, he is only one guy so it would be pretty pointless including him in a study like this. You would need a number of different players for different sizes, styles etc. Since this particular study is about blacks & whites, Yao and any other asian players are irrelevant.
It doesnt matter if they are offensive or defensive or who the other player is. They were measuring the frequency of fouls for each race, depending on the race of the ref. Again the differences are so small that they are almost meaningless except over seasons. |
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