Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Revisiting the Case for Invasion
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Revisiting the Case for Invasion Reply with quote

May 04, 2007
Revisiting the Case for Invasion
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- George Tenet has a very mixed legacy. On the one hand, he presided over the two biggest intelligence failures of this era -- 9/11 and the WMD debacle in Iraq. On the other hand, his CIA did devise and carry out brilliantly an astonishingly bold plan to overthrow the Taliban in Afghanistan. Tenet might have just left it at that, gone home with his Presidential Medal of Freedom and let history judge him.

Instead, he's decided to do some judging of his own. In his just-released book and in hawking it on television, Tenet presents himself as a pathetic victim and scapegoat of an administration that was hell-bent on going to war, slam dunk or not.

Tenet writes as if he assumes no one remembers anything. For example: "There was never a serious debate that I know of within the administration about the imminence of the Iraqi threat."

Does he think no one remembers President Bush explicitly rejecting the imminence argument in his 2003 State of the Union address in front of just about the largest possible world audience? Said the president, "Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent" -- and he was not one of them. That in a post-9/11 world, we cannot wait for tyrants and terrorists to gentlemanly declare their intentions. Indeed, elsewhere in the book Tenet concedes that very point: "It was never a question of a known, imminent threat; it was about an unwillingness to risk surprise."

Tenet also makes what he thinks is the damning and sensational charge that the administration, led by Vice President Cheney, had been focusing on Iraq even before 9/11. In fact, he reports, Cheney asked for a CIA briefing on Iraq for the president even before they had been sworn in.

This is odd? This is news? For the entire decade following the 1990 invasion of Kuwait, Iraq was the single greatest threat in the region and therefore the most important focus of U.S. policy. U.N. resolutions, congressional debates and foreign policy arguments were seized with the Iraq question and its many post-Gulf War complications -- the WMDs, the inspection regimes, the cease-fire violations, the no-fly zones, the progressive weakening of sanctions.

Iraq was such an obsession of the Clinton administration that Clinton ultimately ordered an air and missile attack on its WMD installations that lasted four days. This was less than two years before Bush won the presidency. Is it odd that the administration following Clinton's should share its extreme concern about Iraq and its weapons?

Tenet is not the only one to assume a generalized amnesia about the recent past. One of the major myths (or, more accurately, conspiracy theories) about the Iraq War -- that it was foisted upon an unsuspecting country by a small band of neoconservatives -- also lives blissfully detached from history.

The decision to go to war was made by a war Cabinet consisting of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld. No one in that room could even remotely be considered a neoconservative. Nor could the most important non-American supporter of the war to this day -- Tony Blair, father of new Labour.

The most powerful case for the war was made at the 2004 Republican convention by John McCain in a speech that was resolutely "realist." On the Democratic side, every presidential candidate running today who was in the Senate when the motion to authorize the use of force came up - Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Joe Biden and Chris Dodd -- voted yes.

Outside of government, the case for war was made not just by the neoconservative Weekly Standard, but -- to select almost randomly - the traditionally conservative National Review, the liberal New Republic and the center-right Economist. Of course, most neoconservatives supported the war, the case for which was also being made by journalists and scholars from every point on the political spectrum -- from the leftist Christopher Hitchens to the liberal Tom Friedman to the centrist Fareed Zakaria to the center-right Michael Kelly to the Tory Andrew Sullivan. And the most influential tome on behalf of war was written not by any conservative, let alone neoconservative, but by Kenneth Pollack, Clinton's top Near East official on the National Security Council. The title: "The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq."

Everyone has the right to renounce past views. But not to make up that past. It is beyond brazen to think that one can get away with inventing not ancient history but what everyone saw and read with their own eyes just a few years ago. And yet sometimes brazenness works.
[email protected]

(c) 2007, Washington Post Writers Group

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/05/tenets_brazen_rewrite_of_histo.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Well, without regard for your article, wasn't your previous point (via stratfor) that we were "sending a message to the Saudis"?

What kind of message do you thnk we're sendng at tis point?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sending a message to the Saudis was the reason for the invasion.
The president didn't tell the main reason for the invasion .

The article deals with the question whether the president lied. and setting some of the facts straight about who supported it, and what the policy of the previous administration was.


Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun May 06, 2007 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Okay.

My question is what kind of message you think we're sending to the Saudis.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

Nowhere Man wrote:
Okay.

My question is what kind of message you think we're sending to the Saudis.


Not the one the US wanted to. On the other hand the US can still gain many of the strategic objectives of the war my moving US forces to the Kurdish areas where US forces will no longer be subject to attacks by the insurgents.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Okay.

What kind of message will that be sending to Turkey?

And, while we're on it, did/do we want to send a message to Turkey?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

Nowhere Man wrote:
Okay.

What kind of message will that be sending to Turkey?

And, while we're on it, did/do we want to send a message to Turkey?


The US needs to talk to Turkey more than anyone else in the mideast. Probably something could be worked out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Sounds promisng.

What message are we sending the Saudis?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the US can keep forces in the Kurdish areas the US will be able to begin sending the message it wants to not only to the Saudis but others in the region too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Which is?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF your goverment supports Al Qaeda (or similar groups) or allows them to be supported bad things will happen to you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
contrarian



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the message to Turkey if the US forces withdraw into the Kurd area?

Perhaps, we know who are friends are, and lately it hasn't been you. Or

Start treating your own Kurds right and you won't have so many problems.

We should care what you think . . .

Message to the Saudis:

Be very careful not the get us angry . . . there is a price to pay?

Massage to the Iranians should be:

You're next!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Quote:
IF your goverment supports Al Qaeda (or similar groups) or allows them to be supported bad things will happen to you.


Like what?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

Nowhere Man wrote:
Quote:
IF your goverment supports Al Qaeda (or similar groups) or allows them to be supported bad things will happen to you.


Like what?


Like whatever it takes - military or otherwise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Is this in concurrence with your stratfor article or just your own idea?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International