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MCSM
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
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 Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiberious aka Sparkles wrote: |
| MCSM wrote: |
2007 Korea-Japan Happy Well-Being World Sea of Unity
Settled. |
Better. But now there's gonna be a big deal made of why Korea's name comes first. |
2007 Korea-Japan Happy Well-Being World Sea of Unity aka Sparkles *_*
Betterer. And that's already been considered: Both parties have agreed that the world began in Korea and will end in Japan. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: |
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1. Your claim was that Japan was above such things and they were not petty. I simply pointed out that were such a claim correct, then Japan would simply shrug its shoulders (so as to speak) and let Korea have the rocks. Anyway possession is 9/10ths of the laws and those islands are possessed by Korea. If Japan was not so petty it would accept this fact.
And let's not even get into the sex slave debate and historical textbook revisions. Now THAT'S petty.
And no I didn't make you look foolish, you did a good job of that already.
2. Can you show me a map before 1905 that said they were JAPAN's terrorities? Anyway that is rather silly thinking. Japan incorporated/ annexed/conquered a number of countries and terrorities before and during WWII. By your logic it should still control those as well. |
Incredible. It's funny how everyone tries to link the debate over Dokdo/Takeshima to sexual slavery or textbook revision or whatever. Totally not relevant to the issue at hand.
Simply show me that Korea had possession of Dokdo pre 1905 in any way, shape or form when Japan incorporated it into their territory in 1905. When you can do that I'll concede the point and admit you are right. Prove me wrong and I'll be more than willing to admit I am wrong. It is not a question about Japan being petty here. It is more a point of Japan being in the right whether Korea likes it or not.
I'll give you a warning though. If there was any such evidence, Korea would have trotted it out for the world to see by now. Good luck. I am interested in your reply as I am willing to revise my viewpoint. Have a nice day. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| doggyji wrote: |
| rocklee wrote: |
| What's wrong with Occidentalism? Its a great site and quite informative. |
I can agree with the informative part because as a fact it has lots of info basically. But what about their political agenda? The policies they have when they choose their topics from tons of candidates? I'm not saying the site is a piece of garbage or something like that. However, if anyone has eyes, they will know. Don't say it's basically not partial. Do they ever really criticize Japan for anything? I don't kid myself.
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Its just a website that centres on issues complaining about other countries not just Japan. I never would have known about those comics relating to the VT shootings if the topic hadn't been brought to my attention, same with many other incidents which we all know borders on stupidity (Dokdo/Takeshima, Sea of Japan). There are also plenty of sites in Japan that ridicules the country and Japanese people. After more than 50 years they are still being blamed for the war (except for us guys with no political/personal agenda to either sides).
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| rocklee wrote: |
| The depth that some of these trolls go down to can be unbelievable, even posing as Japanese. |
The depth that some of the trolls go down to can be unbelievable, even posing as Korean, too. I have personally called on such impersonating trolls on several occasions. So obvious.
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Quite possible, if anything some of these trolls have no political nor culture agenda other than to instigate online fights out of amusement, such as our friend Kaizen. For the slightly smarter trolls who may pull some crap from a Korean or whatever website, they can still be easily identified by the way they rely on emotion than logic to drive the point home.
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| The Japanese right-winged party even used a former Korean bar girl to pseudo-academically speak against Korea to have more 'authenticity' effect. What a spokesperson. Ever heard of 오선화? |
Links? That is interesting but not surprising if it was done in retaliation to something else.
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There are many interesting facts behind the curtain, eh. |
Facts that only a Korean would know eh? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
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| 1. Your claim was that Japan was above such things and they were not petty. I simply pointed out that were such a claim correct, then Japan would simply shrug its shoulders (so as to speak) and let Korea have the rocks. . |
Incredible. It's funny how everyone tries to link the debate over Dokdo/Takeshima to sexual slavery or textbook revision or whatever. Totally not relevant to the issue at hand.
Simply show me that Korea had possession of Dokdo pre 1905 in any way, shape or form when Japan incorporated it into their territory in 1905. When you can do that I'll concede the point and admit you are right. . |
Umm...it seems to me that TUM's original point was about your claim that Japan is not petty, not about who owns the rocks. And the sexual slavery and textbook revisions are quite relevant as they back up his point that Japan is just as capable as Korea when it comes to BEING PETTY. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:28 am Post subject: |
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If Japan owned the rocks (and they believe they do with damn good reason), how could they be considered petty when Korea violently stole them and refuses to give them back. Japan has been quite honourable and restrained in this whole affair.
The only reason Korea talks smack is the fact that Japan has a pacifist constitution. You'd never see them doing this kind of crap to North Korea or China who have the ability to retaliate.
Japan has calmly asked for more than 50 years to take the issue to the ICJ. (International Court of Justice) If Korea has the superior claim, they will win. That is all Japan is asking for. Sounds like a nation acting mature and reasonable to me. Anything but petty. On the other hand, Korea has wackos cutting off their own fingers, covering themselves in bees, burning Japanese flags and having schoolchildren draw racist hatemongering pictures of Japan. Perhaps the word petty isn't appropriate here. Maybe immature or childish? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
| . On the other hand, Korea has wackos cutting off their own fingers, covering themselves in bees, burning Japanese flags and having schoolchildren draw racist hatemongering pictures of Japan. Perhaps the word petty isn't appropriate here. Maybe immature or childish? |
AHH! So we agree that these are WACKOS doing these things, not Korea. Given that the majority of Koreans are not doing these things...simply a few fringe groups and some leftist teachers your claim of petty or immature or childish falls short.
Anyway that pales in relation to the issue of the comfort women and at any rate is not much worse than those revised textbooks. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Yes. Tell that to the children that produced these wonderful posters that express their love for Japan. Your fringe groups and leftist teachers are spreading the love quite nicely. They are damn sure trying to make it mainstream. 
For your edification:
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1558 |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
Yes. Tell that to the children that produced these wonderful posters that express their love for Japan. Your fringe groups and leftist teachers are spreading the love quite nicely. They are damn sure trying to make it mainstream.
For your edification:
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1558 |
Wow! ONE whole school. Amazing! And from that you are able to extrapolate and cover the entire country with a blanket condemation.
Though I see you have now backed down from your earlier attempts to claim that it WAS mainstream to begin with...and are now saying "trying to make it mainstream."
Good enough.
And of course Japanese students would NEVER dream of drawing such racist and vile cartoons...even when one of their own was raped by American servicemen.l..because we are assured by you (an expert on all thing Japanese) that they are not so petty.  |
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MCSM
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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At least no one on Dave's is taking this issue, and themselves, too seriously about this.
Dodged one there. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Guri Guy wrote: |
Yes. Tell that to the children that produced these wonderful posters that express their love for Japan. Your fringe groups and leftist teachers are spreading the love quite nicely. They are damn sure trying to make it mainstream.
For your edification:
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1558 |
Wow! ONE whole school. Amazing! And from that you are able to extrapolate and cover the entire country with a blanket condemation. |
Well man that was pretty bad. For a school to not only condone, but publish that garbage is incredibely irresponsible.
Added to that, the school worked with a subway station (publicly owned and under the authority of the Seoul government) to post up the pictures. |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| And of course Japanese students would NEVER dream of drawing such racist and vile cartoons...even when one of their own was raped by American servicemen.l..because we are assured by you (an expert on all thing Japanese) that they are not so petty. |
Basically no, they never would. You can hyperbolize "NEVER" in capital letters all you want, but the point remains that it hasn't happened in Japan, mainly because they don't care all that much about Korea, and it would obviously be unacceptable anyway. If you have recent evidence to the contrary, of Japanese children being made to draw racist pictures and having them posted in a subway station (or something similar), then kindly show us. Otherwise, you've got nothing. |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| rocklee wrote: |
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| The Japanese right-winged party even used a former Korean bar girl to pseudo-academically speak against Korea to have more 'authenticity' effect. What a spokesperson. Ever heard of 오선화? |
Links? That is interesting but not surprising if it was done in retaliation to something else. |
I think 오선화 is a pretty well-known figure in the scene. It was on MBC PD 수첩 (the show that first debunked Dr. Hwang Woo-suck�s fraud). They went to Japan and did investigations and had interviews with relevant people. The outline and VOD are available here.
http://www.imbc.com/broad/tv/culture/pd/1523108_1432.html
The PD�s afterthoughts:
http://www.mediatoday.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=49295
This sure is nasty but now this has become some sort of a magic spell, hasn�t it? For how many more decades, will they bring this up? As far as I know, they took down the pictures because of complaints. Also, it was talked about in the Korean media.
http://www.voiceofpeople.org/new/news_view.html?serial=25733
http://www.stoo.com/news/html/000/365/056.html
http://news.media.daum.net/digital/computer/200506/19/kukinews/v9373596.html
| pastis wrote: |
| Basically no, they never would. You can hyperbolize "NEVER" in capital letters all you want, but the point remains that it hasn't happened in Japan, mainly because they don't care all that much about Korea, and it would obviously be unacceptable anyway. If you have recent evidence to the contrary, of Japanese children being made to draw racist pictures and having them posted in a subway station (or something similar), then kindly show us. Otherwise, you've got nothing. |
While I can see they wouldn�t do such overt things in public, you probably have no idea about the Japan�s biggest forum site, 2CH. They go crazy about Korea even when things are completely irrelevant. It�s quite amusing. Basically it seems like they (so-called net uyoku) can�t live without blaming and bashing Korea and Koreans for everything. It almost looks like their jobs. Bunch of N.E.A.T. guys. The decency so often hits the rock bottom there. I�m not saying the Korean netizenry�s any better but some people seem to have a false idea about all the Japanese being all calm and reasonable. Let me stay clear though. I like Japan for many of their own goods. |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| doggyji wrote: |
| While I can see they wouldn�t do such overt things in public, you probably have no idea about the Japan�s biggest forum site, 2CH. They go crazy about Korea even when things are completely irrelevant. It�s quite amusing. Basically it seems like they (so-called net uyoku) can�t live without blaming and bashing Korea and Koreans for everything. It almost looks like their jobs. Bunch of N.E.A.T. guys. The decency so often hits the rock bottom there. I�m not saying the Korean netizenry�s any better but some people seem to have a false idea about all the Japanese being all calm and reasonable. Let me stay clear though. I like Japan for many of their own goods. |
Can you read Japanese? If no, how would you really know what goes on there? It's a massive forum, with lots of topics. Anyway, I won't deny there are despicable racist Japanese otaku around, but I really don't think you can put them on the same level as Korean netizens since there's not as many of them and they're not taken as seriously I don't think. The simple fact of the matter is most Japanese people don't care much about or feel comfortable discussing political matters.
Also, while more racism does inevitably come through on anonymous forums, Japanese people in general just don't have an obsessive rivalry with Korea (as many Koreans have with Japan). At least this is my impression. |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| pastis wrote: |
Can you read Japanese? If no, how would you really know what goes on there? It's a massive forum, with lots of topics. Anyway, I won't deny there are despicable racist Japanese otaku around, but I really don't think you can put them on the same level as Korean netizens since there's not as many of them and they're not taken as seriously I don't think. The simple fact of the matter is most Japanese people don't care much about or feel comfortable discussing political matters.
Also, while more racism does inevitably come through on anonymous forums, Japanese people in general just don't have an obsessive rivalry with Korea (as many Koreans have with Japan). At least this is my impression. |
Korean-Japanese machine translations work fine enough. Ever heard of enjoyjapan.naver.com where Koreans and Japanese talk to each other in their own languages? 2CH seems quite plagued with "despicable racist Japanese otaku" whenever anything's slightly related to Korea but then I don't know who can accurately quantitate it. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 2CH seems quite plagued with "despicable racist Japanese otaku" |
Likewise I heard the same of k-netizens not only on Korean forums but in other non-politically related forums when the subject of Japan/Korea comes up. The Koreans come in droves quite often in guises that they were local people until someone shows them up asking "where do you come from?"...."America!"...."no really"....."ah...Korea".
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| The simple fact of the matter is most Japanese people don't care much about or feel comfortable discussing political matters. |
True. Bear in mind also that some are naturalised Japanese or mix of Japanese and Koreans. It can become very sensitive. I know they personally wish the entire thing dies down.
As we already know, this is appalling, especially when some of them were expressed in English. It will forever be part of Korean shame.
2CH being one of the biggest forum around, is anonymous and unmoderated giving many people the opportunity to post anything including hate messages. Given Japan's stressful working culture it is a perfect place to vent. There is a foreign equivalent bigdaikon which is just as credible. If you are reading those channels to fuel your arguments then you're looking at the wrong places. |
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