| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
|
 Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: Time for a teacher's unions (another thread but.... |
 |
|
This one is getting close to action.
This was posted on eslcafe. I don't know if it made it on here in the last thread so I thought I'd throw up the link and it's contents:
http://www.global-congress.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=130&Itemid=174
| Quote: |
For All Foreign Teachers in Korea
Association - Union
The idea of a Union or Association for foreign teachers has been discussed for many a long year in Korea.
In conjunction with EFL-Law, Time Taylor International (Korea) and Seoul Law Office, ideas & the legal reality of setting up an Association / Union will be presented to the foreign teachers for consideration.
At this point in time, there has been NO definitive goverment rejection of a foreign teacher's Association or Union in Korea. There were suggestions (some 5 years back) that the idea would not be supported by the Korean Ministries, but this is now!
Attempts to establish and effective Association / Union to date have not materialized due to (1) lack of funding, (2) resources, and (3) interest from a sizable portion of the foreign teaching community. The first two of these three is now available.
In the 1st instance, through the resources of Time Taylor International (a foreign company registered in Korea) (100% owned by the ex attoney who established EFL-Law) and Seoul Law, the following ideas will be put to attendees:-
*A trial service will be established for 6 months on the following limited basis:-
a) The Time Taylor Office in Pusan will operate a Help Desk - (phone -e-mail) daily from 07.00 till 23.00 on weekdays and 09.00 - 17.00 on weekends.
b) Those who come to the conference and attend this session (or simply enter their name in the Register) will be registered and be able to use the Help service for free.
c) Advice/information per phone or e-mail will be given. In the case of emergency / arrest / etc an attorney will be able to speak to the member. Those close to Pusan may attend at the office.
d) Over the following 6 months we will monitor the whole operation, teacher's cases and problems, and obtain members' feedback, (positive and negative.)
e) After 6 months, if the trial run has proved successful, the abovementioned business resources will take all steps necessary to legally establish an Association / Union for foreign teachers in Korea with offices in Seoul and Pusan.
The session will be held in the afternoon. Attorneys will provide information about the proposed idea.
If you read this page please let other foreign teachers know of the meeting.
The session will NOT be a question and answer session. Past experience has shown that to be too time consuming. A web site will be given at the session that teachers can go to to raise questions and thoughts. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If this is allowed by K-government, it would be the most significant triumph for EFL community in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ChuckECheese wrote: |
| If this is allowed by K-government, it would be the most significant triumph for EFL community in Korea. |
I do believe the government allowed the Berlitz people to unionize. Also they allowed immigrant workers to unionize.
The problem with a union is I don't know if anyone really wants to give up pay to pay union dues, especially if they are only here for a year or two. Sure, if you're a lifer, maybe. Am I going to go on strike with my hagwon to protect your rights at another hagwon? Clearly it wouldn't be that kind of union. If it went to the labor board etc for you, great. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| ChuckECheese wrote: |
| If this is allowed by K-government, it would be the most significant triumph for EFL community in Korea. |
I do believe the government allowed the Berlitz people to unionize. Also they allowed immigrant workers to unionize.
The problem with a union is I don't know if anyone really wants to give up pay to pay union dues, especially if they are only here for a year or two. Sure, if you're a lifer, maybe. Am I going to go on strike with my hagwon to protect your rights at another hagwon? Clearly it wouldn't be that kind of union. If it went to the labor board etc for you, great. |
The problem lies in the immigration act. We E2 teachers are EXPRESSLY forbidden to take part in a union or union activities.
Change the law and it is fair game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| When I first read the title of this post, I thought it was goin to be the same story of a foreign teacher who wants to gather a cabal of foreign teachers to start a clandestine and illegal union, etc. etc. etc. ready to be shot down as usual by other posters. But this sounds like a great thing! If such a thing as a foreign teacher's union materializes into something legal that would be wonderful. Shady hagwon owners would have to reform their business practices. And good hagwon owners will have nothing to worry about because . . . . well, they're good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
[,.[/
The problem lies in the immigration act. We E2 teachers are EXPRESSLY forbidden to take part in a union or union activities.
Change the law and it is fair game. |
Exactly. And why would they go to all that trouble to have even LESS control of foreign teachers. I would bet a months pay that the only people allowed to join that association/union are F-type visas
And I would bet 2 months pay that this association also never happens/gets shot down/dies from lack of interest....unless of course that immigration law is changed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm all for it.  Hopefully it will happen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| ChuckECheese wrote: |
| If this is allowed by K-government, it would be the most significant triumph for EFL community in Korea. |
I do believe the government allowed the Berlitz people to unionize. Also they allowed immigrant workers to unionize.
The problem with a union is I don't know if anyone really wants to give up pay to pay union dues, especially if they are only here for a year or two. Sure, if you're a lifer, maybe. Am I going to go on strike with my hagwon to protect your rights at another hagwon? Clearly it wouldn't be that kind of union. If it went to the labor board etc for you, great. |
The problem lies in the immigration act. We E2 teachers are EXPRESSLY forbidden to take part in a union or union activities.
Change the law and it is fair game. |
Then how did the Berlitz teachers manage to unionize? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
inkoreaforgood
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| By the sounds of it, and recent court decisions involving the unionization of illegal 3D workers, I'd say that this union has a very strong chance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| ChuckECheese wrote: |
| If this is allowed by K-government, it would be the most significant triumph for EFL community in Korea. |
I do believe the government allowed the Berlitz people to unionize. Also they allowed immigrant workers to unionize.
The problem with a union is I don't know if anyone really wants to give up pay to pay union dues, especially if they are only here for a year or two. Sure, if you're a lifer, maybe. Am I going to go on strike with my hagwon to protect your rights at another hagwon? Clearly it wouldn't be that kind of union. If it went to the labor board etc for you, great. |
The problem lies in the immigration act. We E2 teachers are EXPRESSLY forbidden to take part in a union or union activities.
Change the law and it is fair game. |
Then how did the Berlitz teachers manage to unionize? |
No idea. But for those who think an union would solve all our problems...think again. Read this 'lovely' treatment of Berlitz teachers (especially in South Korea) Read the entire thing.
http://berlitz.generalunion.org/global.htm
And this is the union branch of Berlitz which is supposed to protect teachers.
For those of you who say "well we wouldn't let that happen here." don't you think the Berlitz teachers would have stopped it if they could? And there are considerably more Berlitz teachers than at this association (and it hasn't even gotten off the ground) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Call me pessimistic, but from what I've read so far, it seems like a decent PR scheme with a minimal investment and big upside for the law firm. Good way to drum up business from the ESL community. Bully for them.
Employment issues are differentiated depending on the type of establishment (hakwon, public school, or university). In general, the hakwon teacher population is highly transient. Public school and university teachers have, and again in general, been here longer and know the ropes better. Exactly who is the union for? What authority will it have?
Somebody tell me why it needs to be done. Let's weigh the potential upside and the associated costs against the organizations and laws currently in place that can provide assistance as of now and for free. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How about we get our respective governments to impose economic and political sanctions on South Korea if they do not treat ESL teachers like the STARS we are!
* no more olympics
* no more samsung t.v.s in canada
* later for Kia, Hyundai (i believe they are korean)
* stop immigration
Obviously there is some humour in this post, but at the heart of it lies some truth. There must be consequences otherwise the sh*t will continue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
How about we get our respective governments to impose economic and political sanctions on South Korea if they do not treat ESL teachers like the STARS we are!
* no more olympics
* no more samsung t.v.s in canada
* later for Kia, Hyundai (i believe they are korean)
* stop immigration
Obviously there is some humour in this post, but at the heart of it lies some truth. There must be consequences otherwise the sh*t will continue. |
Except that the government is not going to jeopardize millions of dollars in trade for a few thousand expats (most of who don't even pay taxes). What makes you think they care about us? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
How about we get our respective governments to impose economic and political sanctions on South Korea if they do not treat ESL teachers like the STARS we are!
* no more olympics
* no more samsung t.v.s in canada
* later for Kia, Hyundai (i believe they are korean)
* stop immigration
Obviously there is some humour in this post, but at the heart of it lies some truth. There must be consequences otherwise the sh*t will continue. |
Well, it is worth it to affect Canadian exports for the sake of a few thousand Canadians involved in a contract dispute with a small time Korean business owner? From the government perspective we have perfectly adequate means within the Korean legal system to address our problems. It's hard, because of the language barrier, but we're not exactly denied access to labor boards and the courts. That zenkimchi guy who is being sued for libel is a good example. His mistake aside of libeling his boss in public, it's clear one can go to the labor board, get satisfaction, and then use the courts to get your money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
No idea. But for those who think an union would solve all our problems...think again. Read this 'lovely' treatment of Berlitz teachers (especially in South Korea) Read the entire thing.
http://berlitz.generalunion.org/global.htm |
fkc and people wonder why the EfL industry is a shambles... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
