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| Who am I? |
| I am a soul. |
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14% |
[ 3 ] |
| I am a biological machine. |
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42% |
[ 9 ] |
| I am sometimes a soul, sometines a machine. |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
| How the heck do I know? |
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23% |
[ 5 ] |
| Please God, enlighten me! |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: Who am I? What is a soul? |
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Okay! Here is a new discussion.
Please tell us what you think you are. You may be as long-winded as you like. Humor or humour is always appreciated.
A question arose from the evolution thread:
| arjuna wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
We didn't say there WASN'T scientific evidence for the soul,
we merely asked what that evidence was. |
I cannot answer your question to your satisfaction.
I am not trying to be funny, but I think the only proper
answer to your question would be another question:
Who is asking the question? |
| ED209 wrote: |
| I really don't know any more, anyway there is nothing that leads me to believe a soul exists, what is there that leads you to believe there is one (in plain English, please)? |
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Last edited by arjuna on Thu May 17, 2007 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I am the center of the universe. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| I am the center of the universe. |
Sure, youre the center of yours, but I'm the center of mine. How can you be in my universe saying you're at its center when I can clearly see standing off to one side? |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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You left out three choices in your poll:
Troll
Sock
Troll/Sock
cbc |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to make a correction to my post above. I think it should be
Sock/Troll.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
cbc |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| I am the center of the universe. |
Sure, youre the center of yours, but I'm the center of mine. How can you be in my universe saying you're at its center when I can clearly see standing off to one side? |
Im the center of Dave's |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am the centre of the universe, the only reason the sun rises in the morning is because I aim my crack at the sky.
Soul died with James Brown.
Anyway, first we need a definition of what the soul is or what you believe it to be. I cannot assume that one exists if i don't know what it is. At the moment is sounds like you are simply referring to you self identity. So if you can tell me what you believe a soul to be, please do. |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| Anyway, first we need a definition of what the soul is or what you believe it to be. I cannot assume that one exists if i don't know what it is. At the moment is sounds like you are simply referring to you self identity. So if you can tell me what you believe a soul to be, please do. |
The source of your consciousness. A bundle of conscious energy. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:41 pm Post subject: Dr. Seuss quote seen in the near future |
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I could be the light or I could be the man in the cave, or I could be the darkness in the cave with the man or I could be the cave.
I could be a chair.
cbc |
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mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I could be a big black double-headed dildo, for all I know.
(based on Chong. I can't be original.) Do chairs suffer?
EDIT: and sock and troll are totally different, though one doesn't exclude the other. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Dr. Seuss quote seen in the near future |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
I could be a chair.
cbc |
Can there really be a "chair?" Is there a "chair", or 4 legs, a seat, and a backing? Aren't we all just meaningless gunk to begin with? How can anyone say we have a soul if we're just meaningless gunk to begin with? And certainly, every set of meaningless gunks with the coincidental circumstances to be thrown together in a certain way such as to have a "consciousness" thinks it is the center of the universe. Certain such sets of meaningless gunk even think they are the center of Dave's. |
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Marc Ravalomanana
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| I am the occasional ping of electricity sailing through gray matter. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
| The source of your consciousness. A bundle of conscious energy. |
I don't see anything to suggest that is true, why do you believe it?
What is the difference between the energy we see and measure around us the energy you named 'conscious'?
I always thought the source of my consciousness was my brain, although it could be that chair. If you can explain what a soul is and what conscious energy is I'd like to hear. If you can't explain or answer any of my question, no fear, we can all just get back to what we were doing. However if this thread reaches over 10pages and we've resolved nothing I will resort to personal insults and questioning the legitimacy of your birth. |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Responding to mindmetoo from the evolution thread:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=73998&start=855
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| I thought on that thread, however, you were going to provide evidence. I guess not. |
I feel this is a futile exercise, and I am not even sure it is a good idea for me to say all this, but I see that you are serious. So here is a serious response. (Or maybe I should just think of this as a sport.) I doubt that you will be satisfied with my answers, and you will keep asking me to answer you in your terms, while I keep telling you that you can shift your perspective and see things you haven't noticed.
How can I answer a demand for the evidence of the soul when everything we are and do points to the soul. Let me try. Science as it is does not know how to measure the effects of the soul as energy form. One day it will. For example, the effects of a smile are perceptible and measurable. They are actual energetic processes (not chemical processes�the processes one observes in the body are subsequent to the smile), initiating with the conscious choice from the person (the initiator would be the soul behind the person and body); the movements of energy (from the smiling person to the... er.. smilee, and back to the smiler) are measurable and, to those able, perceptible�but not by today�s science.
Do you want to catch a soul with its pants down, so to speak? As energy forms, they are perceptible, just as you can see the body of another person, but you would have to be in a different dimension and in a different form. Since there is no �evidence� that there is any other dimension than the one you find yourself in, you would not accept this. What further discussion can there be?
| mindmetoo wrote: |
Anyway, I asked you to define and clarify a few things.
You keep dragging up this "rejected" term without giving me a good example or even a good definition.
Or are we talking this kind of rejection: Someone claims there is a pony that farts rainbows and offers no evidence. One might claim science rejects the notion it is a fact until proven otherwise. A good scientist would say "well, sure it totally lacks biologic plausibility but I won't 100% rule it out. I'm not going to spend my grant money chasing it down. But bring me your evidence." |
The scientist may not be able to see the rainbow because he does not understand its nature and does not know how to construct a measuring device to detect it. <chuckle>
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Many claim auras have a measurable effect. Do you agree or disagree? |
The aura does have measurable effects. In common parlance, �bad vibes� or �a good feeling� are the effects of the aura. Do you think people who can see the aura would be particularly interested in constructing a measuring device for the aura? Do you have to show evidence of color to color-blind people? Do you bother? You have a hard time grasping this, but the fact that the majority of humans cannot perceive the human aura does not make it a non-existent phenomenon. When science understands the nature of the aura, then it will be able to construct measuring devices for it. But by that time, most everyone will already be seeing it. So why bother?
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Define "practical". Science's boundary is if it can be measured objectively, it is amenable to the process of science. What's the issue here? |
�Objectively�: Do I have to say it again? Your science is limited by your perception and understanding. You are not accepting the possibility that there are greater perspectives and abilities of perception. All phenomena are perceptible and measurable, and devices can be made to detect all phenomena when the phenomena are understood. The abilities of perception and understanding are different for different beings. Human perception is not uniform.
�Practical�: When I am writing a poem, I would not want to bother thinking about the physical and energetic processes involved in it. But the processes can be studied in detail, if you wanted to. And the meeting point would be this: When I write I am drawing up thought forms and grades of energy and crystallizing them into a new form. This happens by the conscious force of my soul through my mind and body. The new crystallized thought forms expressed in a particular language is infused with my intellectual and emotional energy. The reader feels this energy when correctly attuned. If you wanted, you could measure all this, too, but not by today�s science. And all this would also be perceptible to those able.
You may or may not understand or accept this. But by any standard, this is science, correct knowledge of all phenomena in the universe.
And this question regarding evolution:
| Quote: |
| That's a rather broad generalization about the decades of scientific work of evolutionary science. What would be an example of huffing and puffing? |
The insistence on chance (random mutations & rearrangements) as the only source of variation.
I mentioned a whole lotta things here that may boggle your mind, I don�t know, maybe not. I keep telling you that your perspective and perception are limited. You keep asking me to make the world sensible to you only in your own terms. |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| arjuna wrote: |
| The source of your consciousness. A bundle of conscious energy. |
What is the difference between the energy we see and measure around us and the energy you named 'conscious'?
I always thought the source of my consciousness was my brain, although it could be that chair. If you can explain what a soul is and what conscious energy is I'd like to hear. |
What energy do you measure and see? Heat? Can you see heat? Is the thermometer measuring heat? Where is this heat? I�ve never seen it. I cannot point to an actual process in the universe and call it heat. Can you? Electric energy? Nuclear energy? Kinetic energy and potential energy? Are all these forms of energy distinctly different and identifiable, or are they concepts arising from the ways in which movement is generated?
On the other hand, qi/chi has a direct correspondence to a form of energy that is manipulable and perceptible by humans. The energy we call qi will cause changes in the processes of the world to generate movement of particles leading to �heat,� and other perceptions. �Energy� (that we use for daily living) that is not based on matter but on the free-form energy (such as qi) would be clean and without limit. This is the solution to our energy problem. Nikola Tesla and Wilhelm Reich have both identified and used them experimentally to generate movement.
You can consider the whole universe as conscious energy. There is differentiation in energy, and there are degrees of consciousness. The soul consciousness is at the upper limits and the consciousness of matter at the bottom. A soul is a fragment from the most highly conscious segment of the universe. I don�t know if these processes can be described adequately in physical terms and in human language. In physical terms, �conscious energy� is the most adequate term for the soul. The energy that a soul can manipulate, and a person can manipulate, would be at the very low end of the consciousness scale, close to matter but less restricted.
The consciousness of the body is limited by the function of the brain, which is really a very complex computer. The soul consciousness would be the guide, so to speak, as the person grows and becomes more self-conscious. Without the guiding of the soul, a person�s life would depend almost entirely on the circumstances and forces put on the person from �society.� The mind of the person has an interesting self-conscious aspect, but I would not describe a person without a soul as self-conscious. He/she would only appear to be so.
So, person and soul are not exactly equal. The more the person�s mind is able to understand the soul consciousness, the more his/her life would become aligned with all the great and wonderful things we talk about when we talk about life. How can it be otherwise? The soul came directly from the most highly conscious <blank> in the universe. |
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