Korean Job Discussion Forums

[pdx]

[riley]

dmbfan, no, I won't assume you meant me in post.

While, I will agree that a bad teacher is a problem, and you are right that schools are being evaluated now based on how well students are learning, and the evaluation will determine the money, but the low scores still miss some details.

First, it is tough working in a poor school district. The kids come in with a whole host of mental issues, ranging from the simple no parent at home because they are working, no breakfast, to abuse, gang violence (even in early elementary!) not enough clothing, etc. You're working with all of this and it can be stressful because your heart goes out to the little ones, and the older kids have already decided that they are failures or have given up. For the serious, hardworking, good teachers, it's high stress, and heartbreaking work. The turnover rate in those school districts can be high, so it's hard to retain good teachers. If a school district can't keep good teachers nor get them, how can the students improve? If the students don't improve, how can the district get more money? It's a nasty cycle.
I'm not saying it's the kids' fault, but the situation is not simple.

[dmbfan]

Quote:

........perhaps. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but a student's performance in school comes from a lot more than "good teacher/bad teacher". Hate to break it to you. Background/parents/genetics/opportunities/support/types of motivation/interests, and yes, the teacher, all make for performance in a student. But also, don't forget that many students take those tests who don't even speak English fluently, or are in some way learning disabled. But guess what? It all goes toward the total score.

Break what to me? Did you not see the last word in my post?

Background/parents/genetics/opportunities/support/types of motivation/interests..........................don't even speak English fluenty.

Background: Specify, please
Parents: Ok....but, that has very little to do with directly affecting the funds that are given to schools.
Genetics: So, genetics play a role in the lack of opportunities for "minorities"?
Opportunities: Well, you can either blame that on racism or the idea of the "right person for the right job".
Types of Motivation: True.....but kids in school need to pay their dues on certain aspects of education, regardless of whether they are motivated or not.
Interests: See the "Types of Motivation".

Ya know, as time goes one, there always seems to be more excuses as to why people can't do this, can't do that, don't get this, and don't get that. Whatever happend to just getting it done for the sake of, getting it done?

The more American society allows this division amongst itself, the worse off it is going to get. When people piss and moan about being a "minority" they are the ones bringing static to the situation. How about just using the term word, "Americans".

And as far as not being fluent in English, well.............tuff shite. If there were not so many illegal immigrants (and that is what they are) coming into the country, perhaps that would not be a problem? Then you have to ask, "why have they not been learning English?"

I think one aspect that was forgotten in the list of reasons was idea of having role models. What role models to kids have these days? Well, black kids have basketball players as role models. White kids......heck, I don't know. Hispanics....not a clue.

When kids think that they don't have to go to school, and life will be handed to them on a silver platter because they see it on T.V., and get mad when it does not happen........who is to blame? When kids see professional athletes acting like punks, going to jail , getting busted for drugs, and livnig the high life, is that motivation to focus on school? For some, yes. But, for many others....I don't know.

Parents......I blame parents for a lot of the problems. When kids realize that they can get away with things, because mommy and daddy either...

1. Don't care
2. Are afraid that someone will call the police for spanking their kids but.
3. Spoil them
4. Don't enforce education, staying in school, and finding a way to get it
done

......your society will have problems.

If people want to keep playing the "minority" card, then lets take a look a the role models for minorities................................



Hmmm..I am not exactlly sure where I was going with that, but.......anyway.

dmbfan

[ChimpumCallao]

ANDALE GUEY! MEXIFORNIA ALL THE WAY, HOLMES.

Serioulsy-
I disagree with those that state that minorites cannot better themselves because of lack of opportunities.

Not saying that it is right or wrong to immigrate- but ain't no one got it worse than a bunch of illegals who can't speak the language, get any sort of public help, and cannot work legally.

Yet, Asian and Hispanic immigrants both outdo Blacks in terms of employment, college enrollment, upwards social mobility, and income. So it is not purely 'opportunity' but also culture that plays a big part into how successful a collective people are.

I would also argue that government also has a huge role, but not in the manner most think. The drug war, welfare, and affirmative action are all detrements as they encarcerate those that are mostly innocent and reduce the incentives to actually work hard rely on one's own meritocracy.

[Alyallen]

[pdx]

Okay- there are two issues being talked about - minorities being able to get scholarships for college, and then bad teachers causing schools to not receive funding when the funding depends on student performance. I was referring to the latter issue because I thought that's what you were referring to.

I'm not at pro at this area, but I was education major in college, and spent quite a bit of time in different classes completing all the hours required. This included student teaching. I'm not just shooting the breeze here- education of young children is my life. Let's review everything I talked about:

Background: Children come from number of different backgrounds, and when I mean backgrounds, it means any kind of familial situation they originate from. Economic means play a very large role in what happens at home (that's a no brainer) and anything that happens at home affects performance in school. I was lucky enough to be raised in a home where education was valued, where reading was a family hobby, and where I was encouraged to do my best. Not all kids have that. Many kids don't have a parent checking in or caring about their homework. It's a reality. Some older kids rarely see their parents because of their work schedules.

Parents: This was just related to background. Just as all of us are different people, and children are different- parenting styles and types of parents are all different. Some parents help their kids with homework, some parents don't. Some parents take their kids to museums and libraries, some parents don't. Some parents play with their kids and are interested in their lives, some parents sit in front of the tv. It all sounds trivial, but it affects kids more than you would believe. Kids learn from example.

Genetics: Have you ever read Freakonomics? I'm not touting it as the Bible, but it does begin to mention that there are children who are able to achieve because of their genetics. Minority or not, there are simply kids who have the brains to do things, and those who do not. This is not a reason for teachers to slack off, of course, but everyone has their weaknesses and strengths. I have always been horrible at science, but in elementary school i was pretty good at Math. That's just how it goes.

Types of motivation: Some kids are just built with intrinsic motivation to do well in school - some are not. A teacher's job is to find that place within a student and motivate them however it is needed. This is what a teacher should do, but it doesn't always work. Some kids have no one at home telling them to try harder or do their best. Some teachers simply don't know how to motivate kids.

Interests: Just like I mentioned before with Math and Science: I have never, ever had a desire to learn science. My teachers always did a great job with it- I've just always hated. I never had a desire to learn it. Music and literature, however, I could study forever. Kids want to be interested in what they're learning. If they're not- (it can be because of their own feelings or because their teacher is boring)... then they don't want to learn! It's that simple!

As for non-English speakers... it is the education system's responsibility to teach children, english or no. ESL (or ELL, now) teachers in the States have a HUGE job- i've seen them at work. I'm not saying we should bend over backwards to accomodate the students (that doesn't make sense- and would be a huge undertaking), BUT I mentioned it to say that these students' (minorities, disabled, etc.) scores are counted in the grand total of things. Since we WERE talking about the funding of schools, and how test scores are often the indicator of how schools are funded, that's an important issue. If a good number of your kids can't communicate clearly in English- how can they score well on a written test? Those are combined with all of the "regular" students to give the score their test scores. If those scores include the non-English speakers, or the disabled, how can that be a true representation of a teacher? I had a sweet, bright girl in my student teaching class who had to take the same test as everyone else- only problem was that she had been in the States only a year. She had good enough English, but she certainly lacked. Smart girl, but i'm sure her test scores were probably dreadful. Remember- I'm not talking about giving her any sort of scholarship- I'm just talking about how her score got put in with everyone else and affected the overall scores for the school.

I'm not making excuses for teachers, and trying to let teachers off the hook, but I really get angry when things are failing and it immediately put to the bad teacher/good teacher scenario. If solving education problems were as simple as that, we'd have no more problems.

[Kwangjuchicken]

[quote="TheBrain"]You can't be an American because Americans realize that the Census undercounts minorities. quote][size=24]There are plenty of opportunities for everyone in America if they are willing to get an education.[/


Then why do so many of us (for example you) have no choice but to be stuck in this ^&%$&%^^%?

[Qinella]

[Tiger Beer]

[dmbfan]

Ok.....some good points, by pdx with some good explanations. Cheers to that.

However...

[Tony_Balony]

This is a PC only forum, there will not be a good discussion here.

[Alyallen]

Why does immigrant = illegal?

dmbfan....I was talking about legal immigrants. There are plenty of them. Go to any hospital in the U.S. and you find plenty of hard working LEGAL immigrants wiping up your blood, cleaning your bedpan and perhaps saving your life.

And besides, don't try to tell me that Americans are walking...no no...running to jobs picking tomatoes, working in slaughterhouses or doing yardwork. I remember reading articles that talked about how these types of jobs were not being filled by U.S. citizens after illegal immigrants could no longer do those jobs. And this was AFTER the employers raised their pay rates to attract workers.

People like to bitch and moan about Koreans and how they treat 3D workers but quite frankly, a lot of Americans think that an honest day's work can't be "beneath" them. This is nothing new. People didn't like the Italians, The Irish, The Chinese, The Koreans, The "Africans" all because they were "stealing their jobs". America is the land of opportunity but who's fault is it if Americans don't step up and do the work themselves?

[Zoobot]

Buhauchi: thanks for your post. It was interesting for me.

[Pluto]

Thebrain:

[djsmnc]

I tend to agree with Thomas Jefferson in Notes on the State of Virginia regarding this topic.