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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: Looks Like the Dems Were Just Bluffing After All... |
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Congress Approves Iraq War-Funds Bill
Congress on Thursday approved a $120 billion bill to fund the troops in Iraq through September without setting a timeline for withdrawal. It is a major victory for President Bush, whose handling of the war has been severely criticized.
House 280-142; Senate 80-14. |
All Things Considered
CNN Reports |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Did anybody ever have any doubt?  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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It'll be a Phyrric victory for Bush and the GOP if Iraq doesn't start to turn around.
The Democrats needed to exert some pressure on Bush concerning Iraq. That was their mandate following 2006. They aren't stupid enough to tread into irresponsibility, however.
One thing I would like to note is the political capital the Democrats had to spend to get even this far. Did any of the 'egregious earmarks' get removed, considering the Democrats only got the most minimal concessions out of Bush? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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U.S. CNN has been attacking the Democrats for those all night. Two-million dollars went to one Congressman's district for airport improvements. CNN put a man and a camera on the ground there, at "the airport," and they counted seven small, executive and recreational aircraft landing and taking off in something like four hours. No commercial flights at all. Would love to know where exactly this money is going to go.
The Congressman was unapologetic. Said he was only sorry that he could not do more for his state.
Interesting that Reid seems to have split with Pelosi and voted for this bill, too. Democrats still not together on this. |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Damn, and people wonder why the Democrats have a reputation for being testicularly impaired weaklings 
And then we have the adminstration descending to ever lower depths of stupidity wrt Iraq. Its like a bull claiming that it has to keep on charging at the red cape in order to keep the matador from winning and it just on getting jabbed bit by bit by bit. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Saxiif wrote: |
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And then we have the adminstration descending to ever lower depths of stupidity wrt Iraq.. |
But at least they are smart enough to split their opposition at home.  |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: ... |
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It would be better to put a sunset on the White House's authority to wage the war in Iraq than cut funding for troops while they're still there.
So, it was all a bit of a mess from the beginning.
On the bright side, I don't think we'll be hearing anymore "I'm the decision-maker" nonsense.
But, on the whole, this is a pretty bleak outcome. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: |
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It's called politics. The Dems took their cue from the mid-90's, when the GOP majority thought it could gain points by shutting down government. Instead, it lost points and votes.
The Dems, in "caving" this time on funding the war are actually hoping to have the best of both worlds. On record in opposition to the war, but not willing to be "unsupportive" of the troops, when all is said and done.
Politically, it was a brilliant tactic. They lost no votes and gained some few, which is all it's going to take to win the next national election, whoever the the nominees happen to be. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| It also goes to show that democracy in the USA is officially a joke. The "Democrats" voted in favor of the Iraqi invasion just as much as the Republicans did, in 2003. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| It also goes to show that democracy in the USA is officially a joke. |
This is too harsh.
It goes to illuminate the correlation of forces on the ground in America. Had Congress decided to cut funding or close down the war, had it marshalled enough support to override any veto, it would have gone differently. For multiple reasons, it went the way it did. Ask yourself why Reid voted as he did, for example.
In any case, perhaps you would like this correlation of forces to be otherwise, Manner. But that is life. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Swing Voters Trouble Antiwar Dems
By Kenneth T. Walsh
Posted 5/25/07
Swing voters are exhibiting a nuanced view of the situation in Iraq � and that isn't good news for antiwar Democrats.
They want the United States to get out, but they don't want a hasty retreat � and they want American involvement there not to have been in vain, according to focus groups and other survey research conducted for the Democrats.
"Swing voters are torn," says a Democratic strategist with close ties to the national party. "They aren't sure immediate withdrawal is a good idea" � and, as President Bush says, they don't want the sacrifices of U.S. troops to go to waste.
Even so, many Americans recognize how complex the situation in Iraq is, and they want their political leaders to make their positions clear, even if those positions are controversial. On the day after the congressional vote to fund the war and not impose timetables for removing U.S. troops, party insiders are very worried about the political effect of it all.
"It works into a negative narrative that the Democrats are not standing up and fighting for what they believe in," says the strategist. And many voters are linking that perception to their longtime concern that the Democrats are weak on national security. "A lot of people think, if you won't stand up and fight for what you believe in" � pulling out the troops � "then you won't stand up and defend us."
Copyright � 2007 U.S.News & World Report, L.P. All rights reserved.
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: ... |
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Swing voters are, for the large part, silly.
Example: election 2004
People had 4 years to determine whether the Bush administration was ridiculous. By Nov. 2004, it was pretty much obvious.
The very concept that one could be undecided about the past 4 years as of 2004 was, at the time, ludicrous.
Moreover, the idea that I coud call the Bush administration a mess and then vote to re-elect the congressional majority that allowed it to behave as such is beyond my imagination.
There are 2 people on this board who have wielded their swing-voter status on this board as some kind of threat.
One is you, Joo.
But where do you live?
Why exactly should I give a rat's behind about how you vote?
Does threatening to vote Republican somehow empower you?
Goph, you can answer this question or go back to your usual rock-throwing.  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| It also goes to show that democracy in the USA is officially a joke. The "Democrats" voted in favor of the Iraqi invasion just as much as the Republicans did, in 2003. |
It's only a joke to people who don't officially understand it.
The government is effectively stalled for this year while investigations go on over the current administration. Meanwhile, the Democrats are drafting proposals for addressing Climate Change to scare big businesses.
You, like many others, need to seperate the issue of whether the war was right to engage in from the matter of whether the US should withdraw troops and if so under what conditions they should do so. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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The majority of Americans voted for the Democrats, and handed them majorities in the Senate and House in the mid-term elections, because the Democrats promised the American public they would get out of Iraq. And the Democrats have since broken that promise, in record time.
American democracy is a joke. Yes I do understand it. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Swing voters are, for the large part, silly.
Example: election 2004
People had 4 years to determine whether the Bush administration was ridiculous. By Nov. 2004, it was pretty much obvious.
The very concept that one could be undecided about the past 4 years as of 2004 was, at the time, ludicrous.
Moreover, the idea that I coud call the Bush administration a mess and then vote to re-elect the congressional majority that allowed it to behave as such is beyond my imagination.
There are 2 people on this board who have wielded their swing-voter status on this board as some kind of threat.
One is you, Joo.
But where do you live?
Why exactly should I give a rat's behind about how you vote?
Does threatening to vote Republican somehow empower you?
Goph, you can answer this question or go back to your usual rock-throwing. |
Bush still won in 2004. But the point is that if the Democrats follow the agenda of Move On and similar organizations agenda too closely then they won't win. But that is fine with me. |
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