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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: Death By Veganism |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?em&ex=1180238400&en=b0e9ba4a07470c2d&ei=5087%0A
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WHEN Crown Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed 3.5 pounds. His vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty.
This particular calamity � at least the third such conviction of vegan parents in four years � may be largely due to ignorance. But it should prompt frank discussion about nutrition.
I was once a vegan. But well before I became pregnant, I concluded that a vegan pregnancy was irresponsible. You cannot create and nourish a robust baby merely on foods from plants.
Indigenous cuisines offer clues about what humans, naturally omnivorous, need to survive, reproduce and grow: traditional vegetarian diets, as in India, invariably include dairy and eggs for complete protein, essential fats and vitamins. There are no vegan societies for a simple reason: a vegan diet is not adequate in the long run.
Protein deficiency is one danger of a vegan diet for babies. Nutritionists used to speak of proteins as �first class� (from meat, fish, eggs and milk) and �second class� (from plants), but today this is considered denigrating to vegetarians.
The fact remains, though, that humans prefer animal proteins and fats to cereals and tubers, because they contain all the essential amino acids needed for life in the right ratio. This is not true of plant proteins, which are inferior in quantity and quality � even soy.
A vegan diet may lack vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary minerals like calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these nutrients, they will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve damage.
Responsible vegan parents know that breast milk is ideal. It contains many necessary components, including cholesterol (which babies use to make nerve cells) and countless immune and growth factors. When breastfeeding isn�t possible, soy milk and fruit juice, even in seemingly sufficient quantities, are not safe substitutes for a quality infant formula.
Yet even a breast-fed baby is at risk. Studies show that vegan breast milk lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat found in fatty fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA, vital as it is for eye and brain development.
A vegan diet is equally dangerous for weaned babies and toddlers, who need plenty of protein and calcium. Too often, vegans turn to soy, which actually inhibits growth and reduces absorption of protein and minerals. That�s why health officials in Britain, Canada and other countries express caution about soy for babies. (Not here, though � perhaps because our farm policy is so soy-friendly.)
Historically, diet honored tradition: we ate the foods that our mothers, and their mothers, ate. Now, your neighbor or sibling may be a meat-eater or vegetarian, may ferment his foods or eat them raw. This fragmentation of the American menu reflects admirable diversity and tolerance, but food is more important than fashion. Though it�s not politically correct to say so, all diets are not created equal.
An adult who was well-nourished in utero and in infancy may choose to get by on a vegan diet, but babies are built from protein, calcium, cholesterol and fish oil. Children fed only plants will not get the precious things they need to live and grow.
Nina Planck is the author of �Real Food: What to Eat and Why.� |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, it's ridiculous. Sometimes veganism seems more like a crazy fundamentalist religion than a proposal to solve ecological problems. Actually, always. |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Yeah, it's ridiculous. Sometimes veganism seems more like a crazy fundamentalist religion than a proposal to solve ecological problems. Actually, always. |
Either that or OCD. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| No argument from me. Im not a nutritionist, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that veganism just ain't healthy. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| No argument from me. Im not a nutritionist, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that veganism just ain't healthy. |
I think the idea behind veganism is that they're sacrificing their health to suggest that we don't need to live as parasitically off other animals. It's not to say that they're eating more healthy than us, because that would just be ridiculous. |
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jmbran11
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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I suggest that you all read the book "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Furman or the results of the China-Oxford Nutritional Study cited therewithin (there is also another book devoted to explaining the study).
They explain why veganism is actually the healthiest diet possible, assuming you do it right, and that primarily vegan societies (like some regions of rural China) have much lower rates of many diseases, such as heart disease, breast cancer, colon cancer, and diabetes - just to name a few. The key is to eat a wide variety of vegetable and whole grains, which takes some effort and readjusting one's tastebuds. The idea that meat and/or dairy products are somehow healthy or needed is a falacy that has been driven into us by consumer advertising and that famous food pyramid produced by the USDA (whose job is, coincidentally, increasing meat and dairy consumption in the U.S. to aid farmers).
I challenge anyone to provide scientific evidence that veganism is unhealthy.
As far as the parents whose child died, that wasn't due them being vegans, that was because they failed to feed their child enough. Vegan does not equal starvation. While I wouldn't defend the parents for putting their own beliefs ahead of their child's welfare, using this as an attack on veganism is over-simplification.
Every study I've come across finds that children fed a vegetable-based diet grow up to be healthier adults who learn better nutritional habits and show lower rates of disease. But, hey, why would we want that for our kids when we can just shove a burger in their mouth and pretend it's the healthy thing to do. |
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Tokki1
Joined: 14 May 2007
Location: The gap between the Korean superiority and inferiority complex
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Some useless trivia: the only vegan beers in Korea are Budweiser and Heineken (I had a vegan coworker). |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| jmbran11 wrote: |
Every study I've come across finds that children fed a vegetable-based diet grow up to be healthier adults who learn better nutritional habits and show lower rates of disease. |
Yes, there's no reason why a four-foot-tall adult isn't healthy.
It's really going to take a lot more to prove that human children don't need protein in their diets. Human adults can survive, sure, but children? PETA will have to run vicious attack ads for a hundred years. |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| jmbran11 wrote: |
I suggest that you all read the book "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Furman or the results of the China-Oxford Nutritional Study cited therewithin (there is also another book devoted to explaining the study).
They explain why veganism is actually the healthiest diet possible, assuming you do it right, and that primarily vegan societies (like some regions of rural China) have much lower rates of many diseases, such as heart disease, breast cancer, colon cancer, and diabetes - just to name a few. The key is to eat a wide variety of vegetable and whole grains, which takes some effort and readjusting one's tastebuds. The idea that meat and/or dairy products are somehow healthy or needed is a falacy that has been driven into us by consumer advertising and that famous food pyramid produced by the USDA (whose job is, coincidentally, increasing meat and dairy consumption in the U.S. to aid farmers).
I challenge anyone to provide scientific evidence that veganism is unhealthy.
As far as the parents whose child died, that wasn't due them being vegans, that was because they failed to feed their child enough. Vegan does not equal starvation. While I wouldn't defend the parents for putting their own beliefs ahead of their child's welfare, using this as an attack on veganism is over-simplification.
Every study I've come across finds that children fed a vegetable-based diet grow up to be healthier adults who learn better nutritional habits and show lower rates of disease. But, hey, why would we want that for our kids when we can just shove a burger in their mouth and pretend it's the healthy thing to do. |
When my sister was born she was on a vegan diet, my aunt helped with the diet for two years. She had a very complete vbegan diet which was designed by a vegan nutrionist.. For the two years that she was a vegan she was sick all the time. Changed nutrionist and included meat and dairy and other animal products and she became healthy once more.
I for myself cleaned up my diet I restrict certain fats. I prefer lean meat which I eat very little of anyway. I prefer eating egg proteins as well as whey proteins. I plan my diet very carefuly to make sure I don't harm myself. Vegan diet requires even more planing and most people lack the knowledge to do that properly. IE b12 problem with vegan diets. Also certain fats can only be attained from animal products, these fats are required to loose weight, build and sustain muscle. I also avoid crappy proteins like Soy. I am very healthy
Any diet can be detrimental if improperly implemented. You can't tell me my diet is wrong and I can't say either for you. Note* I don't give a rats ass about ethical veg heads.
From the Northwestern University Website:
Protein from animal sources (meat, fish, dairy products, egg white) is considered high biological value protein or a "complete" protein because all nine essential amino acids are present in these proteins. An exception to this rule is collagen-derived gelatin which is lacking in tryptophan.
Plant sources of protein (grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds) generally do not contain sufficient amounts of one or more of the essential amino acids. Thus protein synthesis can occur only to the extent that the limiting amino acids are available. These proteins are considered to have intermediate biological value or to be partially complete because, although consumed alone they do not meet the requirements for essential amino acids, they can be combined to provide amounts and proportions of essential amino acids equivalent to high biological proteins from animal sources.
Plants that are entirely lacking in essential amino acids are considered incomplete proteins or sources of low biological value protein. These sources include most fruits and vegetables. A low biological value means that it is difficult or impossible to compensate for insufficient amounts of essential amino acids by combining different sources as with partially complete proteins.
Now comes the fun part. If you have an essential amino acid deficiency your body your body needs to get the essentials aminos from somewhere - your body begins to cannabilise itself. This leads to a condition known as Protein-Energy Malnutrition (PEM)
PEM has the following clinical features: weight loss, diarrhea, loss of lean body mass, muscle weakness, depigmented hair and skin, pressure sores, and depressed immune function.
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Vegetarian_diet_can_lead_to_iron_an_09242006.html Zinc and iron defficiency
http://www.alternative-doctor.com/anti-ageing/carbocontrol.html Carb and obesiety
http://www.barleans.com/literature/flax/114-omega3-deficiency.html Omega 3 fatty acid.
Last edited by Wrench on Fri May 25, 2007 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: |
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From what I understand of that case, the baby died because it's parents didn't know that soy milk isn't a good breast milk replacement. There's a fairly obvious snarky comment here, but I'm not going to make it.
Veganism can be healhy, but it takes a lot of work and thought to make it so, especially when you're dealing with babies and kids. |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
From what I understand of that case, the baby died because it's parents didn't know that soy milk isn't a good breast milk replacement. There's a fairly obvious snarky comment here, but I'm not going to make it.
Veganism can be healhy, but it takes a lot of work and thought to make it so, especially when you're dealing with babies and kids. |
The parents were morons.. There is a reason females lactate when pregnant.. They must have failed high school biology. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| We can call the parents stupid, but if they had a slightly crazier dietary belief like breatharianism they'd probably be locked away for criminal negligence. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| We can call the parents stupid, but if they had a slightly crazier dietary belief like breatharianism they'd probably be locked away for criminal negligence. |
What are you on about? Did you miss something? The parents were convicted of murder, and veganism was a non-issue at their trial. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Does a vegan diet make people as annoying & crabby-assed as hall monitors? Or is that type just naturally drawn to nuts, berries & tubers? Have there been studies? |
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