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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| It would be rather awkward for someone with a KU or Yonsei MBA to supervise people with the same degree from Wharton, Harvard and the like. |
One example of how people have their heads up their as&. Of course I am sure most Harvard MBA students would look down at being supervised by someone from Yonsei but they shouldn't. It is not because Yonsei is good or bad but due to the fact that after doing an MBA it is what you learn for yourself and how creative you are. |
Sorry dude, but I've talked to people who've done the MBA thing in Korea, and they say it's no better than an undergrad education. The MBA programs in Korea are trying to promote themselves, but we would've all passed away before KU, Yonsei or other programs here are mentioned in the same breath as Wharton, Harvard and the like, and that's being overly optimistic. I know a few who took a semester then dropped out because it was so lame. A telling thing is that most, if not all, Korean MBA programs do NOT require the GMAT. Others who did finish did so because they got scholarships or they just wanted to stay in Korea, and well, that's all fine and good if they know what and what not to expect. I had a buddy doing business consulting in Korea a few years back, and was surprised that his Korean coworkers were in the dark about stuff that SHOULD BE BASIC to any consultant with half a brain. The Koreans who do MBAs at international programs in Korea do so because 1) they want to stay in Korea for a number of reasons 2) can't afford or do not want to go abroad or 3) probably went to the same university that they are doing their MBA in.
Connections are important in Korea, but the way Korea is going, connections can only get one so far. I once asked about doing an MBA in Korea years ago, and the response I got from Korean students at the good Korean unis was to screw the international programs and do an MBA with the other Korean students IN Korean, to which I declined. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry dude, but I've talked to people who've done the MBA thing in Korea, and they say it's no better than an undergrad education. |
I was not arguing that is not true but after 20 years in the field or so I think that it is really irrelavant where you studied. Maybe it isn't but it should be. Someone can aquire the necessary skills with a Warton MBA, a BA or a Yonsei MBA. So there is no need to look down on those who did not go to Warton, or Harvard.
Last edited by JZer on Wed May 23, 2007 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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simone
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Now Mostly @ Home
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Also, you would need a very strong quant score on the GMAT.
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Not necessarily. If you're virtually perfect in verbal, it seriously pulls up your overall average. After a few online practice tests I realized that I was wasting my time brushing up on geometry, and actually started listening to those "grammar smart" tapes to make sure that I wasn't making any mistakes that generally "sound okay" to native speakers.
I ended up 97th percentile verbally (I think that's the virtual maximum) and only 52nd in quant, and it averaged out to 87th percentile. No worries there.
Sure, I had a shaky start for the first two weeks in my first stats class (having basically forgotten how to study and needing to relearn that), I did very well in my Finance and Accounting classes. It's numbers, but it's a different kind of numbers.
Hubby and I went to do MBAs at the same time in Canada, and an esl background was never a handicap. In fact, it helped us make connections to all the international students that the other Canadians never could. I've posted about it before, here, but it bears repeating. |
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gruegoo
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| Sorry dude, but I've talked to people who've done the MBA thing in Korea, and they say it's no better than an undergrad education. |
I was not arguing that is not true but after 20 years in the field or so I think that it is really irrelavant where you studied. Maybe it isn't but it should be. Someone can aquire the necessary skills with a Warton MBA, a BA or a Yonsei MBA. So there is no need to look down on those who did not go to Warton, or Harvard. |
It's true that after 20 years of experience it doesn't matter as much what school you came from, but I think in MOST cases a Harvard or Wharton MBA graduate will be more successful and have better experience than a graduate of a so-called "no name" school. This is in part due to the school's reputation, but also because they will have a greater chance at being well educated, hard working, and very skilled at what they do.
Obviously there are some great people who come out of "no name" schools, and some idiots who come out of the big schools. But again, in GENERAL that's simply not the case.
It's not easy to get into the big name schools. You either have to have a unique background/work experience, or be very, very strong academically (compared to other applicants). When it comes down to it, (in general) they work harder for their goal and are being rewarded for it.
I know 2 guys from my highschool that are currently in the Harvard MBA program. Both are incredibly hard workers that studied during every lunch hour, staying after classes to be tutored, and rarely took time off from their studies to go party. They graduated with high 90's averages and near perfect scores on their SAT's, then went to Ivy League schools for undergrad where they got perfect 4.0 GPA's, plus GMAT scores in the 700's. Based on what they have told me, this is not at all unusual for students at Harvard Business School.
I would literally be shocked if the average applicants to "no-name" schools had a similar profile. The best students in the world will most likely attend the best schools to receive the best education and reputation. Therefore, the best schools will most likely produce the best job applicants. The best job applicants will most likely get the best jobs and experience.
Again, there are no absolutes, but there are definite trends.
Personally, I don't look down on people who didn't graduate from the top schools. But I DO look up to many people who graduated from the top programs. I respect the hard work they put in to achieve their success. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| gruegoo wrote: |
| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sorry dude, but I've talked to people who've done the MBA thing in Korea, and they say it's no better than an undergrad education. |
I was not arguing that is not true but after 20 years in the field or so I think that it is really irrelavant where you studied. Maybe it isn't but it should be. Someone can aquire the necessary skills with a Warton MBA, a BA or a Yonsei MBA. So there is no need to look down on those who did not go to Warton, or Harvard. |
It's true that after 20 years of experience it doesn't matter as much what school you came from, but I think in MOST cases a Harvard or Wharton MBA graduate will be more successful and have better experience than a graduate of a so-called "no name" school. This is in part due to the school's reputation, but also because they will have a greater chance at being well educated, hard working, and very skilled at what they do.
Obviously there are some great people who come out of "no name" schools, and some idiots who come out of the big schools. But again, in GENERAL that's simply not the case.
It's not easy to get into the big name schools. You either have to have a unique background/work experience, or be very, very strong academically (compared to other applicants). When it comes down to it, (in general) they work harder for their goal and are being rewarded for it.
I know 2 guys from my highschool that are currently in the Harvard MBA program. Both are incredibly hard workers that studied during every lunch hour, staying after classes to be tutored, and rarely took time off from their studies to go party. They graduated with high 90's averages and near perfect scores on their SAT's, then went to Ivy League schools for undergrad where they got perfect 4.0 GPA's, plus GMAT scores in the 700's. Based on what they have told me, this is not at all unusual for students at Harvard Business School.
I would literally be shocked if the average applicants to "no-name" schools had a similar profile. The best students in the world will most likely attend the best schools to receive the best education and reputation. Therefore, the best schools will most likely produce the best job applicants. The best job applicants will most likely get the best jobs and experience.
Again, there are no absolutes, but there are definite trends.
Personally, I don't look down on people who didn't graduate from the top schools. But I DO look up to many people who graduated from the top programs. I respect the hard work they put in to achieve their success. |
Couldn't have put it better myself. Yes, there are talented people who went to no-name schools, but the best often want the best. My point is that getting an MBA from a Korean program will put you at a disadvantage against competitors who have their degrees from much better schools abroad. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| I would literally be shocked if the average applicants to "no-name" schools had a similar profile. The best students in the world will most likely attend the best schools to receive the best education and reputation. Therefore, the best schools will most likely produce the best job applicants. The best job applicants will most likely get the best jobs and experience. |
Then there are the George W. Bush's of the world that attend places like Harvard. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| It's not easy to get into the big name schools. You either have to have a unique background/work experience, or be very, very strong academically (compared to other applicants). When it comes down to it, (in general) they work harder for their goal and are being rewarded for it. |
Now you are comparing apples with oranges. I should have been clear. If you compared similarly qualified applicants at Yonsei and Harvard, would a Harvard graduate really be better. Not to mention the people out there with high school diplomas that became sucessful business men. |
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Lonely & looking
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: |
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getting any type of degree is Korea is a joke let alone an MBA!  |
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gruegoo
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| I would literally be shocked if the average applicants to "no-name" schools had a similar profile. The best students in the world will most likely attend the best schools to receive the best education and reputation. Therefore, the best schools will most likely produce the best job applicants. The best job applicants will most likely get the best jobs and experience. |
Then there are the George W. Bush's of the world that attend places like Harvard. |
True, but he's an exception rather than the rule. I bet I could find huge idiots from every single school in the world. But if you look at the average students at the bigger name schools, they're academically stronger than the average student at small local colleges.
| JZer wrote: |
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| It's not easy to get into the big name schools. You either have to have a unique background/work experience, or be very, very strong academically (compared to other applicants). When it comes down to it, (in general) they work harder for their goal and are being rewarded for it. |
Now you are comparing apples with oranges. I should have been clear. If you compared similarly qualified applicants at Yonsei and Harvard, would a Harvard graduate really be better. Not to mention the people out there with high school diplomas that became sucessful business men. |
My point is that there are very few similarly qualified applicants to compare in the first place. Take the Yonsei and Harvard MBA programs for example. How many people in any given year would be comparable in quality/amount of education received (prior to entry), quality/amount of relevant experiences (prior to entry), and flat out dedication and talent? Most likely, very few.
I think cases like successful business men with highschool diplomas should not be in a comparison of schools. The reason is, I feel it's statistically rare enough to consider them exceptions. True they exist, but how big of a % of all highschool-only grads are they?
I'm not saying the school guarantees anything. Rather, I'm saying that going to a top school will SIGNIFICANTLY increase your chances at a good job.
| JZer wrote: |
| If you compared similarly qualified applicants at Yonsei and Harvard, would a Harvard graduate really be better. |
Simply, yes.
Assuming all else is more or less equal, the Harvard grad would have a better education, better preparation for the job, and many, many more contacts in higher places (friends and alumni) that will help them in business.
Again this is assuming we're talking about 2 more or less equal people where the only difference was the school they went to. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| simone wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
Also, you would need a very strong quant score on the GMAT.
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Not necessarily. If you're virtually perfect in verbal, it seriously pulls up your overall average. After a few online practice tests I realized that I was wasting my time brushing up on geometry, and actually started listening to those "grammar smart" tapes to make sure that I wasn't making any mistakes that generally "sound okay" to native speakers.
I ended up 97th percentile verbally (I think that's the virtual maximum) and only 52nd in quant, and it averaged out to 87th percentile. No worries there.
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Yeah, well, if you get 97th %ile... Not all of us can achieve such an incredible feat!
About the other conversation..
It is the case that the top tier mba's open more doors (and bigger doors) than others. But that is most strongly felt when looking for your first job. When you want to escape the associate position you got and find a more lucrative second job, it will be more of your performance and skills than where you did your MBA.
A peer of mine talked his way into a 120k/yr Mckinsey job with an MBA from a lower tier school. He is the exception, but it does prove that anything is possible. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| many more contacts in higher places (friends and alumni) that will help them in business. |
gruegoo, that is not true. A Yonsei graduate would have better contacts in Korea than a Harvard grad. Of course a Harvard grad would have better contacts everywhere else. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not saying the school guarantees anything. Rather, I'm saying that going to a top school will SIGNIFICANTLY increase your chances at a good job. |
I would not disagree with a top school significantly increasing your chances at a good starting job but what you learn after that is up to you a luck. So I don't know that after 10-20 years that it matters where one gets their MBA. One should be respected for their career accomplishments and not where they went to school.
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| True, but he's an exception rather than the rule. |
gruegoo, I am guessing that in a school like Harvard their are more exceptions to the rule than at a normal school. Why would some famous idiot want to do the University of Maryland or some not as well know school? |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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But that is most strongly felt when looking for your first job. When you want to escape the associate position you got and find a more lucrative second job, it will be more of your performance and skills than where you did your MBA.
A peer of mine talked his way into a 120k/yr Mckinsey job with an MBA from a lower tier school. He is the exception, but it does prove that anything is possible.
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.....wish I could go to Harvard but I think most people on this board won't get there......seems to me to be more about connections and the knowledge and skills that you get....Look at Mark Hurd Ceo of HP...He went to Baylor and most people laugh at Christian education...
YaYa.....I appreciate the 'tell it like it is' because people need to hear the truth..but maybe you are a bit too negative...why did you come down sooo hard on that Juregen guy?....are you bitter because you spent your time becoming fluent in Korean and it's basically a useless language outside of this country...(unless of course you are Korean church hopping back in the states)...It seems to be more about connections knowing the right people..and being well informed.....Most people make fun of Christian schools in the states but Mark Hurd (CEO HP) went to Baylor and I'd say he's done pretty well....
Also being educated here in Korea should have quite a few advantages in the near future. Yaya have you heard of Goldman Sachs? They have hired people who have graduated from some of the Masters programs here in Korea...They have also released a study saying that Korea will be number 2 or 3 in the world in terms of GDP per capita in the next 10 years or so....Have you heard of UBS?? Probably not you were too busy becoming perfect in the Korean language. They've hired people who have only studied here in Korea...Actually one guy I know is off to Hong Kong quite soon.. He has a Masters' from Seoul National University....Now he's going to be the head of one of the investment departments there...Harvard would be great but I think it's more about who you know and how well you can show what you know to them..... |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| postfundie wrote: |
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But that is most strongly felt when looking for your first job. When you want to escape the associate position you got and find a more lucrative second job, it will be more of your performance and skills than where you did your MBA.
A peer of mine talked his way into a 120k/yr Mckinsey job with an MBA from a lower tier school. He is the exception, but it does prove that anything is possible.
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.....wish I could go to Harvard but I think most people on this board won't get there......seems to me to be more about connections and the knowledge and skills that you get....Look at Mark Hurd Ceo of HP...He went to Baylor and most people laugh at Christian education...
YaYa.....I appreciate the 'tell it like it is' because people need to hear the truth..but maybe you are a bit too negative...why did you come down sooo hard on that Juregen guy?....are you bitter because you spent your time becoming fluent in Korean and it's basically a useless language outside of this country...(unless of course you are Korean church hopping back in the states)...It seems to be more about connections knowing the right people..and being well informed.....Most people make fun of Christian schools in the states but Mark Hurd (CEO HP) went to Baylor and I'd say he's done pretty well....
Also being educated here in Korea should have quite a few advantages in the near future. Yaya have you heard of Goldman Sachs? They have hired people who have graduated from some of the Masters programs here in Korea...They have also released a study saying that Korea will be number 2 or 3 in the world in terms of GDP per capita in the next 10 years or so....Have you heard of UBS?? Probably not you were too busy becoming perfect in the Korean language. They've hired people who have only studied here in Korea...Actually one guy I know is off to Hong Kong quite soon.. He has a Masters' from Seoul National University....Now he's going to be the head of one of the investment departments there...Harvard would be great but I think it's more about who you know and how well you can show what you know to them..... |
I've heard of all of the companies and programs you've said, but well, the truth hurts. See the lineup of upper-level management at many companies, and see how many got their grad degrees abroad. Like I said, I've talked to a few people who tried to do the MBA thing here, and many said it's a damn joke with professors whose English suck, mediocre students and unchallenging coursework.
So you hear of ONE SNU MBA grad who is going to Hong Kong and assume that ALL can do it, and beat out peeps who've done MBAs at Wharton, Harvard and the like? Get a life. I also agree connections are key, and perhaps that is what got the ONE guy his break in Hong Kong (which is HARDLY New York or London and I wouldn't be surprised if he got a job there with a KOREAN company).
I'm not bitter but it's clear YOU ARE considering how defensive you got over my post. Yes, there are success stories about people who stayed in Korea to do their biz master's, but a foreign MBA is leaps and bounds ahead of a Korean one, and well, if you disagree with that, you seriously need your head examined.
And as for Korean being useless outside of Korea, think again. I got jobs others couldn't in Los Angeles because I spoke Korean, and I can probably find work for Korean companies in other countries. So NO, I am not bitter about becoming fluent in Korean (at least I can say I have, unlike many losers in Korea who've stayed here years yet can't get beyond "maekjoo deohjusaeyo"). |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: |
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I think yaya, you are going a little overboard. I think the truth is somewhere between. Of course a Harvard degree will help you get a better job. I would not argue against it but that does not mean that some people at Baylor, Yonsei, IUP, or any MBA program can be successful. Some people attend these programs and are as smart as students at Harvard. Due to financial obligations not everyone can attend Harvard or move their family across the country to do so no matter how smart they are. Not to mention that one has to be able to use the information to improve their career.
I guarantee you that everything that is learned in Harvard could be learned in books and on the street. |
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