Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jvalmer]

[thepeel]

[stevemcgarrett]

jvalmer wrote:

[jinju]

There you go steve, way to twist things to fit your pro-Chinese argument.

Taking a page out of your book:

in 2007 the American people voted the Democrats into the house.
The democrats are against the war and want to end it.
Therefore it is evident that the American people are against the Iraqi war and want it to end.

THEREFORE

It is just fine for insurgents to attack American troops because just like over half of the voters in America, they too are against American presence in Iraq.

As I said, you are blinded to the facts by your relationship.

What I would like to see you explain and excuse is

China's role in the oppression of Tibet
Chinese support of North Korea
Chinese support of the junta in Myanmar
Chinese support of murderous regimes in Africa
Chinese exports of poison laden products to countries like Panama, Australia and the USA
Chinese refusal to play fair and float their currency

China is a force for evil. Wake up Steve.

[contrarian]

China is indeed a force for evil. It has been for thousands of years. The Chinese are Borg wannabes

[stevemcgarrett]

jinju:

You can stop being a jerk and bringing my wife into this argument any time now, comprende?

Everything I stated about the government in China has been true for more than a decade.

China's foreign policy, abominable as it is, is based on the laisse-faire notion of non-interference, which of course is convenient for them, given that outsiders are always pushing them on human rights, etc.

It is NOT an aggressive foreign policy, per se, but a policy of accommodation. If anything, the PRC is more concerned about developing its network of economic alliances. Nothing is surprising about that motive, given that every other major nation does the same thing.

The GOVERNMENT did not deliberately involve itself in the use of banned chemicals in pet food. Why would they want to jeopardize their trade relationships?

You're correct that the yuan is undervalued by a considerable amount. WTO rules call for a convertible currency too. And that is precisely the issue that is being negotiated in Washington now. That doesn' make them evil, just greedy. Actually, given the dismal financial condition of the SOE's in China, it's understandable.

So, Hirohito, unless you have something informed to contribute to this discussion, take a chill pill with a bottle of sake.

[jinju]

I always took you for a realist Steve, but on China it seems you arent quite the realist I thought you were. Im only bringing your wife into the argument because I suspect your relationship with her has blinded you to the realities of China.

Non-interference you say? Infact I wouldnt call providing guns and arms to Myanmar to continue oppressing their people, continuing to prop up Kim and actively sending those lucky enough to have escaped that hell hole back to Kim and his gulags as non-interference. Nor would I call the stifling of international efforts to stop the slaughter in Darfour as "non-intrerference". Not to mention the very active INTERFERENCE in the internal and external matters of Taiwan. No, I would call that very much something different. Your euphamisms are as abhorrent as the PRC's actions. In its race to 10% per annum economic growth China is VERY VERY actively helping out some NASTY abhorrent regimes in Africa and Asia. Non-interference my ass.

Your attitude towards Taiwan is for me the most chilling. Take into account that taiwan is one of the few outposts of democracy and capitalism in Asia and a loyal ally of the United States. Your attitude of dismissal towards the very real hostile actions of Beijing towards it have really caused me to reconsider how devoted you really are to the values you claim to believe in: democacy, freedom, capitalism.

Shame on you Steve.

[contrarian]

China has a record of territorial grabs, even since WWII. Al most all of their neighbors have suffered. India, Pakistan, Burma, Viet Nam, The USSR, Tibet, and if you count island claims, the Phillipines, Viet Nam and Malaysia.

Taiwan, does does not want to be part of the PRC and a good part of the Taiwan does not want to be part of China. They even got caught trying to interferre with a US recon plane. What about Tiannenmen or Maos 30 million plus liquidated of their own people. Nor does the "Middle Kingdom" arrogance impress me..

China is going to become a big problem if we don't smack then down now.

[stevemcgarrett]

contrarian wrote:

[jinju]

Ill say this Steve. I was with you when you took a hard, moral stance on Islamists. Thats why it is so painfully disappointing to see your appeasement of China. Where is the Steve with a moral backbone? The Steve Im seeing in this thread is straight out of the Chamberlain school of
"realpolitik". ofcourse Im using a euphamism here Steve because what Im seeing is making me wonder how much money the Chinese are paying you. I would expect this out of Big Bird actually...making excuses for the worst scum on Earth, afraid and unwilling to call a spade a spade. Afraid and unwilling to label Chinese foreign policy the crime that it is and making the weakest excuses imaginable. But your stance on the Taiwan-China issue is a moral disaster. Taiwan has been sold out at the behest of an aggressive Chinese communist government. it is too late now but the fact that you condone selling an ally out to appease a criminal regime makes me wonder where your moral compass would be pointing on September 1st, 1939. "yes Mr.Hitler, take Poland, we wont protest".

This thread has been your Waterloo, Steve. It is not too late to turn back. And you should, because you are straight on your way to freethought land.

[contrarian]

Smaking them down should be easy.

1. Offically recognize Taiwan's independance. Rocognize the Dalai Lama as the trues ruler of Tibet.

2. Boycott the Olympics.

3. Interfere with their old supply.

4, Use recoprocal trade enforement on them. If Chnia won't float their currency float it for them in all US/China trade. Put BIG tariffs for dumping.

5. Make a big list of things that can't be sold to China.

6. Make complant after complaint to the WTO

Come to think of it similar restrictiona are rumored to have caused the Japanese to raid Pearl Harbor.

[stevemcgarrett]

jinju wrote:

[contrarian]

In reverse order.

1. Nuclear weapons across the Yalu, yes. Re Lwmay, I think you are confusing the Cuban crisis with the Korean war.

2. Kissinger - Shanghai accords. Nixon and Kissinger were wrong. The Chines broke them iin some of their agressive spasms in any event..

3. Recognizing Taiwan and Tibet would create a serious confronation and loss of face for the CHinese. That is a good thing. Do you think Bush's Ballistic Missle defence is aimed anywhere but Chines. Get real. The military consequences are China's choice, they are realist enough to bitch like hell rattle a few sabres and take it. If not, nuke em/

4. Olympic boycotts speak to loss of face and economic loss. Medals at a boycotted olympics don't count for much - remember Moscow.

5. I've already said my goal is to provke a confrontation, beter now when the Chinese will lose rather than later when they might not.

5. I understand the baking issue quite well, my BA is in Economics. It is the vulberability of the Chinese banking system that I was aiming at. It is unweildy and overheated. A shove like that woul put it over the edge.

6. Nope the tooth fairly could check it instead. Dumb answer to a dum response. I would also heavily prosecute Chinese industrial espionage.

7. WTO item by item, inundate them. Just look what Boeing has done to Airbus with the same method.

8. In the '50's I was a better dead than red believer, I still am.

[On the other hand]

[Gopher]