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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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 Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: What's wrong with this picture |
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http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa070524_wz_taksprotest.6fe879b.html
On a more important note, do you think that failure to pass ONE test should be reason enough to deny a student the right to walk at graduation?
When did ONE test prove more than 4 years of study?
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Crystal Martinez complained that while she finished at the top of her class with a 3.5 grade point average, she is now blocked from graduation by failing the TAKS test.
"We know we're not going to get our diplomas, but we just want to walk across the stage," Martinez said. "That's all we ask for right now."
Classmate Chloe Walker agreed. "I believe that I have at least the right to walk the stage with all my friends," she said. "I made it this far, and I have all my credits I need. I deserve to get my certificate of completion." |
I'm so glad I'm not in high school now... |
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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I completely agree- its total crap...but so is the public education system.
very interesting, i note, that a girl who could not pass a standardized test most others did still managed to get a 3.5 at school. goes to show you that public education really is not doing a very good job with the future of america. or she just sucks at taking standardized tests.
still- what bs- let the girl walk and get her diploma. if they pass their classes, as required, they should graduate. The standardized test is cruel and should not erase 4 years of work- and it would be unnecessary if they upped the curriculum to something other than lowest common denominator pandering. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well maybe the protest says a lot more about public education than it intended.
Check out this sign....
What do we want?
Let ARE kids walk!!
When do we want it?
KNOW!! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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No, the test is dead on. And students do not have a right to graduate high school, Alyallen. This sense of entitlement sits at the center of many of our problems today.
Every public schoolteacher I know complains that, from day one, parents micromanage and even harass the schools over their childrens' grades -- inlcuding organizing to have teachers fired and even law-suits. As one retired teacher I know is fond of pointing out: teaching remains one of the most heavily-critiqued professions by those who are least-qualified to make such critiques.
So, then. A 3.5 GPA? So what? Can she pass a simple consumer-mathematics, a high-school reading-comprehension, and a basic composition test -- you know, state an idea and develop it; write a persuasive business letter; fill-out a job application legibly? She earned a 3.5 GPA but cannot average numbers or read a pie-chart or a graph?
I took such a test when I graduated high school. Any on-the-ball eighth-grader could have passed that test.
No sympathy from me on this, then. Either our high-school diplomas carry weight or they do not. And those parents in Happeningthang's pic can go fight City Hall on this as far as I am concerned -- that is, if they can even read a phonebook and a map to get there in the first place...
Last edited by Gopher on Fri May 25, 2007 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
Well maybe the protest says a lot more about public education than it intended.
Check out this sign....
What do we want?
Let ARE kids walk!!
When do we want it?
KNOW!! |
Yeah....that's why I named the thread the way I did...
| Gopher wrote: |
No, the test is dead on. And students do not have a right to graduate high school, Alyallen. This sense of entitlement sits at the center of many of our problems today.
Every public schoolteacher I know complains that, from day one, parents micromanage and even harass the schools over their childrens' grades -- inlcuding organizing to have teachers fired and even law-suits. As one retired teacher I know is fond of pointing out: teaching remains one of the most heavily-critiqued professions by those who are least-qualified to make such critiques.
So, then. A 3.5 GPA? So what? Can she pass a simple consumer-mathematics, a high-school reading-comprehension, and a basic composition test -- you know state an idea and develop it; write a persuasive business letter; fill-out a job applicaiton legibly? She earned a 3.5 GPA but cannot average numbers or read a pie-chart or a graph?
I took such a test when I graduated high school. Any on-the-ball eighth-grader could have passed that test.
No sympathy from me on this, then. Either our high-school diplomas carry weight or they do not. And those parents in Happeningthang's pic can go fight City Hall on this as far as I am concerned -- that is, if they can even read a phonebook and a map to get there in the first place...
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You passed the class. Why do you have to pass another test on top of it? What does it prove? That A. the girl isn't a good test taker or B. her classes didn't teach her much of anything.
If it's A, then it sucks to be her. But then again, if that is the direction public school education is going, you would think that she would be better prepared to take tests that may or may not follow what was taught in her classes. And to be fair, this standardized test nonsense didn't becomes common place until the last few years, so perhaps she's not as test oriented as some people are....
If it's B, she shouldn't be penalized for passing (and passing highly) in those classes. She's a student, her job is to pass the classes she is placed in and she did that and quite well on top of it.
I'm not criticizing teachers but passing the penalty onto students is hardly a solution.... |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Was this test a requirement for getting to participate in graduation? And did the girl know this?
If the answer is yes to both questions and she FAILED to meet the requirements then sorry, tough luck. So bad, so sad.
In the end it is HER responsibility to meet the requirements. You are all simply a bunch of whiny people, the kind that have given kids today an attitude of entitlement. If I failed a test the responsibility was all mine. Thats the case here. She shouldnt get to participate. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| I'm not criticizing teachers but passing the penalty onto students is hardly a solution... |
Agreed. But you should also take this back to its ultimate origins: parents have been micromanaging teachers for quite a while -- and on multiple fronts. Their child deserves an "A" on everything and they will argue with you until you change it or offer an extra-credit assignment; you should use purple or another "nice color" when grading and not "red" which is too severe on the students' fragile personalities; do not say anything at all that their child might consider "offensive," or their entire family will take it personally and hold you accountable for it; do not teach evolution or anything else controversial; etc., etc. This list goes on and on and on, Alyallen.
So I am sorry. But if she and others like her finish four years of high school and cannot work with A2 + B2 = C2 then they do not deserve a diploma and they should not walk on the same stage as those who do, either.
And I take your point, above. But I would fault the states and their school districts for caving to parents and the public so easily. I also take your implied point that perhaps she and others like her had a bad day and simply took a bad test. But I remind you that they can retake this test.
Finally, I ask that you consider this question: are we to educate our youth or cater to them and their parents' egos...? I think you can guess my answer. We are not making cornflakes here. Education is a serious business. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Schools should have minimum standards for students to graduate. If they choose to include an exam that will determine if the kids have met this minimum standard, all the better.
Many schools will give high grades based on attendance and PC factors. Teachers are often not allowed to give the grades actually earned by certain students in "special" groups. Those groups will change from school to school, region to region and era to era.
If a student who got a 3.5 GPA can't pass a simple minmum standards test, then that student should NOT graduate.
I've got middle school Korean students who have never left Korea who could pass that test, in English, on any day of the week. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| that picture of 'are' instead of 'our' is fricking funny...it's almost has to be a joke...... |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
No, the test is dead on. And students do not have a right to graduate high school, Alyallen. This sense of entitlement sits at the center of many of our problems today.
Every public schoolteacher I know complains that, from day one, parents micromanage and even harass the schools over their childrens' grades -- inlcuding organizing to have teachers fired and even law-suits. As one retired teacher I know is fond of pointing out: teaching remains one of the most heavily-critiqued professions by those who are least-qualified to make such critiques.
So, then. A 3.5 GPA? So what? Can she pass a simple consumer-mathematics, a high-school reading-comprehension, and a basic composition test -- you know, state an idea and develop it; write a persuasive business letter; fill-out a job application legibly? She earned a 3.5 GPA but cannot average numbers or read a pie-chart or a graph?
I took such a test when I graduated high school. Any on-the-ball eighth-grader could have passed that test.
No sympathy from me on this, then. Either our high-school diplomas carry weight or they do not. And those parents in Happeningthang's pic can go fight City Hall on this as far as I am concerned -- that is, if they can even read a phonebook and a map to get there in the first place... |
There is near-unanimous disagreement among teachers of the No Child Left Behind Policy. It has teachers teaching to, and kids studying to, tests... just like here in Korea.
Now shut your pie hole. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Holwer-Monkey wrote: |
There is near-unanimous disagreement among teachers of the No Child Left Behind Policy. It has teachers teaching to, and kids studying to, tests...just like here in Korea.
Now shut your pie hole. |
ROFL. Oh, I see. So, yet again, I am off because I fail to recognize that this is in fact W. Bush's fault.
Shut my pie hole...?
How about "no?"
And how about this as well...? You can get drunk and scream and rant and insult others on this message board to your little heart's content. You can bitterly and angrily attack W. Bush and each and every poster you claim serves him here. But your method is entirely off-base, and reflects more than anything, your own mental instability.
It will still not bring her back, BLT.
What you really need is a good therapist who will listen to you and let you cry on his or her shoulder about how you could not stop it...
In any case, you are our resident hate-preaching freakshow. Keep getting in my face with the personal attacks and insults, and I will return all such favors in kind.
Good day, howler-monkey.  |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
No, the test is dead on. And students do not have a right to graduate high school, Alyallen. This sense of entitlement sits at the center of many of our problems today.
Every public schoolteacher I know complains that, from day one, parents micromanage and even harass the schools over their childrens' grades -- inlcuding organizing to have teachers fired and even law-suits. As one retired teacher I know is fond of pointing out: teaching remains one of the most heavily-critiqued professions by those who are least-qualified to make such critiques.
So, then. A 3.5 GPA? So what? Can she pass a simple consumer-mathematics, a high-school reading-comprehension, and a basic composition test -- you know, state an idea and develop it; write a persuasive business letter; fill-out a job application legibly? She earned a 3.5 GPA but cannot average numbers or read a pie-chart or a graph?
I took such a test when I graduated high school. Any on-the-ball eighth-grader could have passed that test.
No sympathy from me on this, then. Either our high-school diplomas carry weight or they do not. And those parents in Happeningthang's pic can go fight City Hall on this as far as I am concerned -- that is, if they can even read a phonebook and a map to get there in the first place... |
I'm in complete agreement. Regrettably, I believe the number of qualified and quality teachers are going down while parental interference is going up. Neither of which is beneficial for students and their signs are a uh..."sign" of their level of education (or an intelligent, witty joke poking fun!).
I am steadfast in allowing any interference from parents! If I meet parents, I'm not at all affable, I put on my gameface and exude confidence. That's my way of say'n, "Hey, I'm the professional, trust me and let me do my job. You just gotta make sure your kid attends class and does his/her homework. Now have a good day."
Catering to parents is the doom of any student, teacher, class, school, admistration, hogwan, etc. I found that by bowing to parents in the slighest point, that is a show of weakness that in fact parents sense and hate and will find more points to attack.
Tell ya a funny story...
I was a homeroom teacher in a bilingual school in Taiwan and had this one boy who was the worst. Tardiness, incomplete homework, behavioral problems, the works. BUT I saw potential! I was hard on that boy and was making limited progress so I told the school I wanted to meet the father. I knew the father was connected with the local mob somehow but that didn't concern me. He had his crew cut and decked out all in black but I let him have it with both barrels in getting his son to do his homework. Let me tell ya, It was something else to see this tough scary fella being humbled!
Next thing I know, the kid did a 180 and turned out to be one of my best students.
Thing is to treat parents not much different from a student and tell them what's-what openly and honestly. Save's alotta heartache down the road.
Anyways, did this:
"We know we're not going to get our diplomas, but we just want to walk across the stage," Martinez said. "That's all we ask for right now."
Classmate Chloe Walker agreed. "I believe that I have at least the right to walk the stage with all my friends," she said. "I made it this far, and I have all my credits I need. I deserve to get my certificate of completion."
strike anyone as odd? She would rather walk a stage than get her diploma?! And this coming from a supposed 3.5 grade average student? I would fight tooth and nail for my diploma, piss on any stage walk or TAKS exam. I dunno, I'm gonna have ta call students' B.S. on this one...
btw, the funny thing after that school year and I left that school I found out that that boy changed his English name to my name! Groovy....
(I'll give ya a cookie if you can count the number of times I used "that" in my post!) |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I fail to understand is the obsession that people from some countries seem to have with graduation ceremonies. Finish kindergarten, primary school, high school, all seem to be celebrated with a big parade to rejoice in their having completed a compulsory activity.
When I finished high school in Australia, I received my certificate in the mail, as did everyone else of my age. There, high school is compulsory (the first 3 years anyway), and celebrating the completion of it, as an obligation, seems to me to the heights of ridiculousness. Everyone has to do it - what makes finishing kindergarten, primary school or high school something worth having a big graduation ceremony? |
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