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AN historical, an historian etc...ermmm Why?
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RedRob



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: AN historical, an historian etc...ermmm Why? Reply with quote


There must be some rule that I dunno about. Surely if there is no vowel directly after, I could say " a historic....", but it just seems wrong?

Is there a secret 'jump the H code' that I'm not aware of??
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babtangee



Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be an honor to answer your question, but I really don't know. Sometimes the "H" is silent (honor, hour, etc), in which case it's understandable. "An historic"? I'm not sure that sounds right.
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oneofthesarahs



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Sacheon City

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, according to my voice and articulation professor from college, the REAL pronunciation of "historic" is "istoric"
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grainger



Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Location: Wonju, Korea

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On words on which we have begun to articulate the "H" such as heart we use "a heart" on words in which we do not articulate the "H" such as historic we use "an historic". If you read a lot of older fiction you will notice that they frequently use "an" in front of "H" words with which we would us "a" because they used to say things like art instead of heart. Just one of the many ways you can figure out how people's accents have changed over the years.
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cubanlord



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the use of the articles 'a' and 'an' are determined by the sound of the beginning of the target word. Thus, if the words starts with a vowel sound, you use 'an'. On the other hand, if the word starts with a consonant sound, you use 'a'. There is a common misconception that the letter at the beginning of the word tells you which article to use. This is not the case.

Hope this helps.
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Richard Krainium



Joined: 12 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubanlord wrote:
the use of the articles 'a' and 'an' are determined by the sound of the beginning of the target word. Thus, if the words starts with a vowel sound, you use 'an'. On the other hand, if the word starts with a consonant sound, you use 'a'. There is a common misconception that the letter at the beginning of the word tells you which article to use. This is not the case.

Hope this helps.

What about the words university, uniform or unique?
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babtangee



Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard Krainium wrote:
cubanlord wrote:
the use of the articles 'a' and 'an' are determined by the sound of the beginning of the target word. Thus, if the words starts with a vowel sound, you use 'an'. On the other hand, if the word starts with a consonant sound, you use 'a'. There is a common misconception that the letter at the beginning of the word tells you which article to use. This is not the case.

Hope this helps.

What about the words university, uniform or unique?


Sounds like they start with a "Y", no?
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Richard Krainium



Joined: 12 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

babtangee wrote:
Richard Krainium wrote:
cubanlord wrote:
the use of the articles 'a' and 'an' are determined by the sound of the beginning of the target word. Thus, if the words starts with a vowel sound, you use 'an'. On the other hand, if the word starts with a consonant sound, you use 'a'. There is a common misconception that the letter at the beginning of the word tells you which article to use. This is not the case.

Hope this helps.

What about the words university, uniform or unique?


Sounds like they start with a "Y", no?

ok...but my students never believe that one... Laughing
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faster



Joined: 03 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In contemporary American usage, historic takes the "a" since the "h" is fully articulated.
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Whistleblower



Joined: 03 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This actually is the sixth historic vowel sound. In French this is the same. If the 'h' is actually sounded then it is proceded with a 'a' or vice verca with a 'an'.
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shantaram



Joined: 10 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My co-teacher reckons I don't pronounce 'h' at all. I'm like huh? I don't go around the school going 'allo 'allo all day. She needs her ears cleaned out.
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Thiuda



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The words 'university', 'uniform' and 'unique' do not begin with a 'y' sound; such a phoneme does not exist. They start with the phoneme /j/.
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babtangee



Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thiuda wrote:
The words 'university', 'uniform' and 'unique' do not begin with a 'y' sound; such a phoneme does not exist. They start with the phoneme /j/.


Congratulations, Mr. Technical. However, I did not say they start with a "'y' sound"; I said "it sounds like [those words] start with [the letter] 'Y'."
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babtangee



Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shantaram wrote:
My co-teacher reckons I don't pronounce 'h' at all. I'm like huh? I don't go around the school going 'allo 'allo all day. She needs her ears cleaned out.


Ya sure 'bout dat, gov'na?
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RedRob



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys Laughing
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