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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Immigration depresses wages in both Canada and U.S: report |
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OTTAWA -- Immigration has depressed wages in both Canada and the U.S., but has also reduced wage inequality in this country, while widening the gap in the U.S.
Those are the key findings of a Statistics Canada study released Friday which found that a significantly higher proportion of immigrants to Canada than the U.S. are highly educated, increasing the supply of such workers, but lowering their earnings.
Immigration was a factor in a seven-per-cent drop in real wages of highly educated workers in Canada between 1980 and 2000, the report said.
Low-skilled workers in Canada have also gained relative to high-skilled workers, because the share of low-skilled workers in the labour force has declined, it said.
While the earnings gap between high school dropouts and university educated workers increased to nearly 45% from 38% in Canada over the past two decades, in the absence of immigration that gap would have widened to nearly 50%, it calculated.
In the U.S., however, immigrant labour is concentrated among low-skilled workers depressing their wages, and less so of highly-skilled workers, which served to magnify growth in US wage inequality, the report said.
In 2001, about four in 10 individuals with more than an undergraduate university degree were immigrants in Canada compared to only two in 10 in the U.S., it noted.
There was a significant but relatively comparable inverse relationship between the change in the supply of labour from immigration and in wages in Canada, the U.S. and in Mexico, said the report, which looked at the impact of immigration on wages in the three NAFTA countries between 1980 and 200.
A 10-per-cent change in the labour supply due to immigration resulted in a three-to-four-per-cent change in earnings in the opposite direction, it found.
Mexico, however, lost workers to emigration. And, as a result, wages there went up.
"Mexico provides a mirror image of the impact of emigration in a source country," the report said.
Between 1980 and 2000, immigration increased the male labour force by 13.2% in Canada and 11.1% in the U.S., while Mexico experienced a 14.6% loss.
"The differences in skill mixes between Canada and the United States are the result of differences in immigration policies during the last four decades," the report said.
Canada has encouraged high-skilled workers to come to the country while the U.S. has emphasized family reunification, which resulted in a disproportionate number of low-skilled immigrants, it noted.
Erin Weir, economist with the Canadian Labour Congress, said the report on the positive side suggests that Canada has done better in attracting higher skilled workers than the U.S.
However, that wages here have also been depressed by immigration, suggests that Canada needs to do a lot more to ensure immigrants are fully aware of their workplace rights to protect them from being taken advantage of by employers, Weir added in an interview.
Another "emerging issue" raised by the report is the more serious damping impact on wages of Canadian workers resulting from an increasing trend to bring in temporary foreign workers, he said.
The report also noted that significant illegal immigration to the U.S., especially from Mexico, and the fact that U.S. immigrants tend to be younger than Canadian immigrants, has also contributed to U.S. immigrant workers being lower-skilled than those who entered Canada. |
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=2729a661-79b8-434a-bae3-52e79f62241d |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| The US population is getting older and America needs high skilled people. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| I like how you focused on the immigrants as the cause of the problem as opposed to the business owners taking advantage of them for cheap labor... It's like saying the hammer is making the nails go in crooked instead of blaming the douchebag using it. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I don't write for the Finanical Post.
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focused on the immigrants as the cause of the problem as opposed to the business owners taking advantage of them for cheap labor... |
Business owners pay market rates for labour. If the supply of labour is increased the value will decrease.
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It's like saying the hammer is making the nails go in crooked instead of blaming the douchebag using it. |
Interestingly silly apology. But now that the marxist claptrap is passed us,
I'm in favor of high-skilled and low-skilled immigration to Canada. But maybe 250,000 is too many for the economy. But the really interesting thing from the article is:
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...a seven-per-cent drop in real wages of highly educated workers in Canada between 1980 and 2000, the report said |
Which is quite disgusting. Wages going down, taxes staying at 50%. |
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Ozabout7or8
Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
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I have zero sympathy for Canada at least. It is sparsely populated and could handle a doubling or even tripling of the population no worries. You forget that increases in population, whether highly skilled or not, almost inevitable lead to increases in GDP as you now have more workers.
Stop trying to protect your patch. Try being born in lower class India or countryside China and your view on immigration would change.
The USA, has a strong tradition of assimilating immigrants and while not as sparsely populated as Canada can easily accomodate a large number of immirgrants every year.
When the economic conditions are improved in the countries from which these immigrants came, then the flow of those wanting to escape for a better life will slow down.
BJWD you wann have a look at USA's influence over South America for the last 100 years to realise why their economies are crumbling and why the USA is more than a little bit responsible for the slow of immigrants it gets.
Canada is a little less culpable, but like I said sparsely populated, so cry to someone else. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:47 am Post subject: |
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You tend to cry about things you do not understand.. This will be time #2 I kick your empty mind around in one week.
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BJWD you wann have a look at USA's influence over South America for the last 100 years to realise why their economies are crumbling and why the USA is more than a little bit responsible for the slow of immigrants it gets. |
Now, I read the above "paragraph" several times. I think you are saying "Latin America is poor because America made them so"? Is that right?
But onto school...
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I have zero sympathy for Canada at least. |
Why would you? Who asked you for sympathy? Not I.
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It is sparsely populated and could handle a doubling or even tripling of the population no worries. |
So, regardless of the political economy, adding large amounts of people creates a situation of "no worries"?
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You forget that increases in population, whether highly skilled or not, almost inevitable lead to increases in GDP as you now have more workers. |
Actually, that is neither fully true, and to the extent that it is, I did not forget it. What I do think that you "forget", meaning "can't understand" is that GDP is a near fully meaningless figure for one, and in addition to that, what makes a wealthy nation is GDP/capita.
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| Stop trying to protect your patch. |
Is "patch" white trash for "own"? Assuming it is, I'm not. I would like my home nation to increase wages over time. Not to much to ask. As I said above, I am in favor, generally, of immigration. But I, not being you, take a more nuanced position than freshman indignation.
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Try being born in lower class India or countryside China and your view on immigration would change. |
I'm sure it would. Go to www.notcanada.com to read about what Chinese and Indian immigrants have to say about moving to the land absent of opportunity.
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The USA, has a strong tradition of assimilating immigrants and while not as sparsely populated as Canada can easily accomodate a large number of immirgrants every year. |
And the US has a different political economy than does Canada. Theirs is much easier to navigate.
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When the economic conditions are improved in the countries from which these immigrants came, then the flow of those wanting to escape for a better life will slow down.
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Indeed. But they aren't going to. Nations are poor because their governments, or other powers, stand in the way of development.
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| Canada is a little less culpable, but like I said sparsely populated, so cry to someone else. |
Cry? So, the wages of my home country have stagnated for more than 25 years and a discussion of this is crying?
The USA is able to absorb more migrants because it is more capitalistic. Full stop. Lower taxes, a cultural respect for business and entrepreneurship, and a very lightly regulated economy (by global standards) allows individuals to work and make better their lives. Other states do this well as well, for the same reasons (like Singapore).
If the political economy of Canada (you can read the notcanada site to learn what problems immigrants have) changed, then so would my opinion. But as long as it is an ultra-high tax/regulation jurisdiction, and one with a culture of not respecting foreign qualifications, I think immigration should be lowered.
How many months out of uni are you? |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, OZ said a load of giant misconceptions. A bunch. The US has to feed India's poor? India is a grown up land now so they can act that way. They can feed their poor. |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| This article really misses the situation. Immigration always helps the immigrants, they almost always get a 10 fold pay increase. The locals can kiss off. Its their turn to be poor. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: ... |
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And the US has a different political economy than does Canada. Theirs is much easier to navigate.
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I'd be interested in hearing what you mean by that.
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| Indeed. But they aren't going to. Nations are poor because their governments, or other powers, stand in the way of development. |
As well as this. What do you mean by "other powers"? It seems you're making a blanket statement. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
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And the US has a different political economy than does Canada. Theirs is much easier to navigate.
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I'd be interested in hearing what you mean by that.
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| Indeed. But they aren't going to. Nations are poor because their governments, or other powers, stand in the way of development. |
As well as this. What do you mean by "other powers"? It seems you're making a blanket statement. |
The United States has a more free economy than does Canada. Mainly, for the purpose of this discussion, their (America's) trades and professional bodies tend to be more easily accessible than are the ones in Canada. For a high skilled immigrant, the near impossibility of entering ones vocation within a reasonable time makes the USA a more reasonable option.
In addition to that, the United States has a culture of entrepenurialism that Canada does not (to the same degree). Also, taxes are lower (which makes running a business MUCH easier). And so on.
The United States has a much more dynamic economy than does Canada. We supply them with the natural resources to run their economy. That is the reality.
About the "other powers". I was just throwing the foaming lefties a bone. Sure, maybe Argentina is poor now because of George Bush. I didn't want to get into that discussion.
My real opinion revolves around the idea of "institutional health" and "credibility of rules", which are the big development topics of the day. Poor nations are kept/make poor because of poor institutions and poor institutions make/keep poor countries poor. External factors can hurt too (HIV, war, civil conflict, religiosity etc). The World Bank has done some excellent research with the idea of "credibility of rules" and economic growth. Check it out.
http://www.worldbank.org/research/journals/wber/revsep98/pdf/article%201.pdf
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| Our results seem to support the propositions. We constructed an overall indi-cator of credibility based on survey data and tested whether it contributes to explaining differences in growth and investment across countries. |
So, when I say that governments stand in the way, I should be more specific and say institutions or incredible rules. |
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