Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jmbran11]

You guys are really annoying! There are plenty of parents of varying philosophies, religions, mental illnesses, etc. who kill their children through neglect or worse. You shouldn't villify an entire group based on the actions of a non-representative few.

As I said when I posted three pages ago, personal beliefs should not come before the health of your children. But, the fact is, a well-planned vegan diet is still healthier for children than the average western diet, which is literally killing our children. This idea that there is no protein in vegetables is ridiculous. Compare one ounce of broccolli with one ounce of steak or cheese and tell me which is more nutritious.

I referred to studies over the long-term that prove that vegans are actually healthier throughout their lives. You don't have to accept that, or agree personally, but just stop making blanket statements that vegans are sickos or evil. I was a vegan for several years, and I was never sick, thin, or depressed. Neither were the other 40 other educated young adults who lived in our co-op house. They were people who made an informed decision regarding their health and personal morality instead of just swallowing whatever b.s. they had been fed about meat and milk being somehow necessary for health.

Vegetarians could call you all barbarians for eating once-living creatures for mere pleasure. But, we don't come on here and attack you for being backward, ignorant, selfish, and unhealthy just because you don't share our opinion (or ethics). Maybe there have been some cases of people who take veganism to the extreme, where it becomes a mental illness, but so do meat-eaters. How many people are dying from obesity, heart-disease, diabetes, and a host of other ailments directly related to a poor diet? I guarantee you that it's far more than the number of people who are dying from vegan-related deaths.

According to the WHO:

"Overweight and obesity are both serious risk factors for cancer. Diets high in fruit and vegetables may reduce the risk for various types of cancer, while high levels of preserved and/or red meat consumption are associated with increased cancer risk."

http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/publications/facts/cancer/en/

Here's some other sites about the dangers of our current diet (including the harms of dairy products) if anyone is actually interested in information:

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_2_1x_Were_Killing_Ourselves.asp

http://tuberose.com/Dairy_Products.html

http://www.drfuhrman.com/faq/default.aspx

http://www.goveg.com/contamination_bacterial.asp

http://www.rense.com/general26/milk.htm

[cosmo]

[jmbran11]

I didn't say anything about soy or about not feeding your child breastmilk. In fact, I said brocolli is healthier than meat or cheese. So, when you find an article about the dangers of eating too many vegetables, let me know.

There are some infants, like my brother, who are unable to digest dairy products at birth. He had to drink special (non-dairy) formula, which was quite expensive. The doctor ordered it due to his allergy. It was soy-based. It didn't kill him. In fact, it saved his life. The difference was, he was under the supervision of a physician, and my parents were loving and not neglectful (i.e. they didn't starve him).

And, cosmo, I wasn't even referring to you as annoying. You posed articles about crazy people I certainly wouldn't defend. I don't condone psycho parents who put their own beliefs ahead of their childrens' welfare, be they vegans who starve their kids, Seventh Day Adventists who oppose a life-saving blood transfusion, Christian Scientists who refuse proper medical care, or zealous believers who practice gential mutilation. I'm pretty sure I said that in the previous post. And the one before that, actually.

But, let me follow your logic.

More than one child has died in bathtubs. Bathtubs are a significant source of drownings for infants. The fact remains that bathtubs have harmed numerous infants. Therefore, bathtubs must be bad. Parents should not bathe their infants. Bathing should be halted and criminalized immediately.

[yingwenlaoshi]

[Bramble]

[cosmo]

[jmbran11]

Yes, yes, when defeated by logic people always resort to name-calling. Some of us grew out of it in elementary school, but other simply move to Korea and post on the internet.

Dr. Furman's site is really good. Just for the record, he doesn't necessarily advocate total veganism for everyone, just the benefits of a healthy diet that is primarily vegetable and whole grain based, with limited (or no) use of animal products. He uses it to cure diabetes and heart disease and believes that it will help to prevent breast and colon cancer. I would never insist that all parents choose a vegan diet for their children, but I do think that a properly supervised and executed vegan diet is healthier for children than the typical American diet, which is extremely detrimental to their welfare. On the flip side, veganism does take a lot of work to do it well, and most people don't have the time/energy/desire to devote to that. It's never an excuse to kill your kids.

One problem is that people are discussing two or three different cases on this thread. The one last month was a vegan couple who basically starved their baby. It's still unclear why they were using formula or why they didn't seek the help of a physician. The other case is about a family with three children who were prosecuted some time ago and tried to use their religious beliefs (which included veganism) as a defense. Then, there's just some random stories about vegans being crazy and evil, which I find unfair and unwarranted.

I have no problem with the couple involved going to jail. They starved their baby. They murdered her (intentionally or not). But I think it's a shame that it's being used to blanketly villify all vegans. That's all. I'll stay out of it now.

[cangel]

The parents should go to jail for stupidity alone... Baby weighted more at birth than it did 6 weeks later. Get a clue!

[JongnoGuru]

(I wish this were in a different thread, as it's not about the vegan baby-killers. But...)

[Bramble]

I was pleasantly surprised to see a rational respose to Planck published on FindLaw:

http://www.animalconcerns.org/external.html?www=http%3A//writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20070529.html&itemid=200705290731080.665508

[Bramble]

This was copied and pasted to another forum, and I thought I'd share it here. Finally.

[yawarakaijin]

For me it is pretty simple. We didn't evolve to be the most intelligent species on earth by eating only fruits and nuts. Everything we are now is a product of thousands of years of evolution. That evolution included a quite substantial meat and protein diet from certain foods. How the heck can it be healthy to all of a sudden stop eating those foods. Stop attributing all the unhealthy effects of a high meat diet to the meat itself..get off your lazyboy and starting hunting large mammals again (get some exercise) and you'll be fine.

[Bramble]

[yawarakaijin]

Bramble vs a meat eating Neanderthal in a cage match. That's what I would like to see. He might even teach you some manners while he's whooping your veggie eating as#.

[Bramble]