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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: Political Buddhism rears its ugly head |
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I am not any sort of an authority on Thailand(that's an understatement). However, on the face of it, this would seem to be a rather injudicious piece of legislation.
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BANGKOK: In a step that could sharpen divisions in its increasingly violent, largely Muslim southern provinces, Thailand appears ready for the first time to make Buddhism the state religion in a new constitution.
Under pressure from masses of orange-robed monks who have rallied in the streets and distracted by other political challenges, the country's military-backed government is going along with a notion that has made little headway in the past.
The movement comes at a time of increased divisions and political tension in Thailand as the government seeks to pass a constitution, hold a parliamentary election and return the country to democracy by the end of the year.
The junta seized power in a nonviolent coup Sept. 19, ousting then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra while he was abroad.
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Ammar Siamwalla, a leading economist in Bangkok who is a Muslim, noted that Buddhism, unlike Islam, is not a political religion and that it presents no equivalent to the Islamic laws instituted in some Muslim countries.
Given this lack of substance, he said, the entire debate seems pointless.
"I'm amazed that a 2,500-year-old religion has to obtain legitimacy in a document which will last probably, on the basis of past form, 10 years or less," he said, referring to the constant rewriting of constitutions in Thailand.
"Our constitution is the least respected document in the country," he said. "It's been torn up too many times to be so obsessive about."
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My own wild guess would be that the regime is scrambling for legitimacy these days, and thinks that appeasing hubristic monks will buy them some much-needed support. But I am speculating.
http://tinyurl.com/2tug7e |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: |
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The root-cause of this is the ongoing violent campaign against the Buddhists in the south. Thai muslims, with financial help from Malays in Malaysia, have been waging a very aggressive and brutal war against the Buddhists.
In other words, the muslims are so violent they are making the Buddhists aggressive. This will be the reaction all over the world. muslim violence and intolerance will be met in kind. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
The root-cause of this is the ongoing violent campaign against the Buddhists in the south. Thai muslims, with financial help from Malays in Malaysia, have been waging a very aggressive and brutal war against the Buddhists.
In other words, the muslims are so violent they are making the Buddhists aggressive. This will be the reaction all over the world. muslim violence and intolerance will be met in kind. |
Terrible if true.
Religious extremism rears its ugly head. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
The root-cause of this is the ongoing violent campaign against the Buddhists in the south. Thai muslims, with financial help from Malays in Malaysia, have been waging a very aggressive and brutal war against the Buddhists.
In other words, the muslims are so violent they are making the Buddhists aggressive. This will be the reaction all over the world. muslim violence and intolerance will be met in kind. |
You didn't present the whole picture on this one. I thought like you that it is simply Muslim fanaticism and not wanting to live with the Buddhists. This is like the mistake the Christians of Lebanon made in incorporating southern Lebanon into their state.
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Ethnic-Malay Muslims have viewed schools as "symbols of the Thai state's assimilation policy going back to the education act in 1921", she said. "Schools have always been at the center of this conflict because it is one of identity and assimilation."
Thailand's Malay Muslims - who speak a different language, the Malay dialect Yawi, and have a different history going back centuries associated with the Islamic kingdom of Pattani - have always stood out in contrast to Thailand's Buddhist majority, who speak Thai and have their unique history revolving around Buddhist kings.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/HL07Ae02.html
Bangkok opened this divide after forcefully annexing the three southernmost provinces in 1902 and later through assimilation policies aimed at forcing Malay Muslims to subordinate their own identity to Thai concepts of statehood. Thai dictator Phibun Songkram, who rose to power in the late 1930s, implemented harsh policies that banned the use of the Malay language in government offices, forced Muslims to take on Thai names and required Malay Muslim children to bow before Buddha statues as an act of patriotism, according an ICG research report. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I know the story, actually. And their faux oppression doesn't justify what they are doing. I could post pics of the burned bodies, if you like.
They are starting a war they won't be able to win, or stop. All over the world. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Political Buddhism rears its ugly head |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I am not any sort of an authority on Thailand(that's an understatement). However, on the face of it, this would seem to be a rather injudicious piece of legislation.
| Quote: |
BANGKOK: In a step that could sharpen divisions in its increasingly violent, largely Muslim southern provinces, Thailand appears ready for the first time to make Buddhism the state religion in a new constitution.
Under pressure from masses of orange-robed monks who have rallied in the streets and distracted by other political challenges, the country's military-backed government is going along with a notion that has made little headway in the past.
The movement comes at a time of increased divisions and political tension in Thailand as the government seeks to pass a constitution, hold a parliamentary election and return the country to democracy by the end of the year.
The junta seized power in a nonviolent coup Sept. 19, ousting then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra while he was abroad.
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| Quote: |
Ammar Siamwalla, a leading economist in Bangkok who is a Muslim, noted that Buddhism, unlike Islam, is not a political religion and that it presents no equivalent to the Islamic laws instituted in some Muslim countries.
Given this lack of substance, he said, the entire debate seems pointless.
"I'm amazed that a 2,500-year-old religion has to obtain legitimacy in a document which will last probably, on the basis of past form, 10 years or less," he said, referring to the constant rewriting of constitutions in Thailand.
"Our constitution is the least respected document in the country," he said. "It's been torn up too many times to be so obsessive about."
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My own wild guess would be that the regime is scrambling for legitimacy these days, and thinks that appeasing hubristic monks will buy them some much-needed support. But I am speculating.
http://tinyurl.com/2tug7e |
I live in Thailand. I've spent a lot of time in this country and I've learned a lot about Thai culture. At this point in time, no one I have spoke with is criticizing this temporary government that is doing it's utmost best to get the country back on it's feet after Thaksin who was very corrupt and evil. The Thais were waiting for the coup de tat long before it ever took place and there were parties to celebrate afterward. The King supported the coup and that's good enough for the people. He continues to support this temporary government. A whole lot of Thais would rather see the King back in power and ruling the country the way it use to be for centuries. He's very popular here and this country will be in serious turmoil when he dies. The King rules the hearts and souls of the Thai people so his power is very real and very strong. The new government has the King's blessing and that's as good as gold. With this blessing, they have sent military forces to the deep south of Thailand to ferret out terrorists who target schools, school teachers, school children and even monks. It's a really disgusting and serious problem here in Thailand. There's all sorts of stuff going on in the south of Thailand that the world doesn't know about, but we get a lot of the news here in Thailand so we are aware. Sometimes it upsets me to pick up a newspaper here and see pictures of monks who are in bloody pieces all over the road from a bomb. I feel very sad. The Thais reaction to my sadness is rather strange to me. Some of them laugh at my reaction maybe because they've seen so much of this and it's no surprise to them. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I know the story, actually. And their faux oppression doesn't justify what they are doing. I could post pics of the burned bodies, if you like.
They are starting a war they won't be able to win, or stop. All over the world. |
This reminds me of what the Assamese oriental looking people in India are doing to the Hindus in India. The separatists are killing non-Assamese by bombing innocents to purge their lands of non-Assamese.
As far as these Malays, the oppression of them of them in the past and their subjugation seems real enough. It doesn't justify the terrorism and bombings, but the brutal treatment of them and their culture, if the article is right, partially explains the situation. It is not so cut and dried, I suppose. Of course, the Buddhist monks speaking about political Buddhism are reacting to the insurgency of the South and also corruption existing in Thailand. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| They are starting a war they won't be able to win, or stop. All over the world. |
Did the Muslims "start" this war?
Really? Oh my yes, how conveniently anti-thetical 
Hmmmmm .... |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I know the story, actually. And their faux oppression doesn't justify what they are doing. I could post pics of the burned bodies, if you like.
They are starting a war they won't be able to win, or stop. All over the world. |
I hadn't heard that story, and it makes a big difference to me to find that they might be rebelling against having their heritage stripped from them as opposed to simply being religious fanatics.
You seem to keep the Thai muslims lumped with Islamic religious extremists with your, "They are starting a war...All over the world", comment. You don't accept the possibility that they might have other complaints?
I don't know the truth of the matter, maybe they're religious fanatics who are rebelling against their opression, percieved or actual. I don't know. I'm guessing, really, you don't either.
To me it sounds remarkably similar to nationalist, culturalist sepratists all over the world in their actions and justifications- the IRA, the Tamil Tigers, ETA, Chechen rebels etc etc etc. |
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