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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: |
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she gave up because she like many of us are frustrated that the democracts have DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION LIKE THEY PROMISED!!!!!!
I'm damm proud of her calling the dems on this now.
in 08 lets vote them all out, thats whats she saying |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: |
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McGarette,
That is screaming funny! Yeah, great article  I expect it in the Washington Post any day now.....
And typical of you. Denounce others without proof and then post something (finally) of substance but which in none of..... spooooofy you are.
Fact of the matter is; doesn't have anything to do with the right or wrong of her protest, IF IF IF IF the grave is unmarked. In fact, all of my family has unmarked graves. Doesn't in the least have any bearing on the love we have for them. So stuff that side of your slander, always slandering.
As others have said. She, all other facts/side acts aside, represents atleast one American that said, NO. America and the world would be much better with those who would espouse her active love.
DD
Oh yeah almost forgot. Here's another one. With Kuchma, recently. And he knows all about this guy being a murderer. Ordering the murder, on tape, of the young journalist, Gongadze. I am sure Bush never did visit his widow or 2 twin , fatherless daughters, even though they lived for awhile just down the road from him......scream about this stuff, not a mother who has lost a child. Scream how he could visit this "bloody" "friend".
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
she gave up because she like many of us are frustrated that the democracts have DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION LIKE THEY PROMISED!!!!!!
I'm damm proud of her calling the dems on this now. |
In '68 there were riots at the Donkey and Uglican conventions, but the worst were in Chicago, where Hubert Humphrey had been just been nominated on a platform of 4 more years of war in Vietnam. It was the first national election where 18-year-olds could vote, though these same young males had long been in the national lottery to see who would be called up die in a jungle far, far away for no goddam reason in the world. Imagine how pissed off they were, at the choices they were given, first time they got to vote for a president ...
Feeling a little bit like that right now. The Dems control Congress, so theoretically they could end it all tomorrow just by cutting the purse strings. Instead, it's all about "timetables." What was the last election all about, anyway?
This thing is whack. End it.
End it now. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Bobster wrote:
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I can't think of any more worthwhile statement anyone could want to make. No more. Not even one more.
Look this question straight in the eye, and do not look away, or confess you are a coward, a weasel and far less human than we all want and need you to be : Do YOU want your son, daughter, sister or brother to be the last one to die in a war that serves not the slightest benefit to the country they were born in? |
So one AWOL Mom goes peacenik and you would have her speak for all the parents who've lost sons in Iraq? That's really rich.
How come the majority of families who've lost loved ones there don't share her or your sentiment?
How come so many of the walking wounded have said they'd go back tomorrow if they could?
You don't speak for them any more than I speak for you. Sheehan has a right to protest but she was a tool of the Left. Her cause became ideological and she embarrassed herself at the expense of her country in the process by meeting with puppetmasters like Chavez.
Of course no one wants their son or daughter killed in a war. What kind of stupid question is that? One young Marine who recently died as the result of a RPG attack on his convoy has a father who's a Buddhist and married to an Asian Buddhist. He never begrudged his son his honor, his desire to fight for a cause he felt was worthwhile.
So while you can go on deploring our involvement there, don't belittle those fighting in the sand or their families back home who disagree with your defeatism and constitute a majority voice besides. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| don't belittle those fighting in the sand or their families back home who disagree with your defeatism |
I would never, and I HAVE never belittled anyone who fights and dies for my country. You are an idiot to imply that.
Your avatar looks me straight in the eye, you deflect your gaze from the question I asked. Can you answer it? I'll ask it again, and give you a chance to dodge it, just as gopher likes to dodge ...
Do YOU want your son, daughter, sister or brother to be the last one to die in a war that serves not the slightest benefit to the country they were born in?
This is a miltary action that was never going to succeed. It's not about defeatism or idealism, it was always about what was possible and what was not. The more we try, the more we will hurt. And continue to hurt.
I love my country. My country does not deserve the pain this war is causing.
Saddam was a bad guy. Likely, we did a good thing by taking him down. Let Iraq and the rest of the Middle East sort it out, though things might have been better if Iraqis themselves had taken him down.
smg, wake up and look around. The war is already over. EVERYONE is saying the words "exit strategy." What does that tell you?
Last edited by The Bobster on Wed May 30, 2007 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| The war is already over. EVERYONE is saying the words "exit strategy.' What does that tell you? |
Referencing what you said above about the last soldier dying being my own child. Frustrations about the conduct and goals of this war as a whole aside, soldiers are going to die in the retreat, and the retreat is already happening. Witness the open negotiations with Iran. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| The war is already over. EVERYONE is saying the words "exit strategy.' What does that tell you? |
Referencing what you said above about the last soldier dying being my own child. Frustrations about the conduct and goals of this war as a whole aside, soldiers are going to die in the retreat, and the retreat is already happening. Witness the open negotiations with Iran. |
Not sure if we are actually in agreement, but if it's true, it's likely the first time for the two of us, and maybe it's a happy moment for all.
Let's try this one: It can end tomorrow if we want it to.
Everyone just walks out and comes home, lets the Middle East deal with their social psychoses any way they can. Let them keep their oil, we'll grow a million truckloads of corn, drive hybrids and let them find their own way to hell while we find ours, but in the meantime we're not killing them and they are not killing us.
It could work. I can't think of any reason it won't, except that we are all too afraid to do the hard thing. All I'm saying ...
End it. End it now. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Um, you say that like it's a bad thing. It's not. |
Bobster: it is a bad thing to take your views and claim they represent Truth and the universal good. That is what your hated archenemy does, remember?
| The Bobster wrote: |
| You fail to give examples. I will give one. She had said for a long time that the justifications given for the invasion, incursion, occupation, whatever you wanna call it, in Iraq were completely bogus...Cindy said that a long time ago. When she first started saying it, people laughed. You are still laughing, and I'm wondering who the joke is on. |
If I am laughing, Bobster, it is because some people still honestly believe that Sheehan said these things herself. But where was she, for example, after the Iraqi War began but before her son died and the far left appropriated her as a propaganda symbol and mouthpiece?
She never opposed the war at all, Bobster. Her son's death devastated her and she got willingly caught up in someone else's politics for a time. Now she has had enough and wants to go home. No more no less.
1990s: Anita Hill. 2000s: Cindy Sheehan. And to illustrate how fleeting your "Cindy's" impact is, I would wager that most here would have to Google "Anita Hill" to get the ref.
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Dunno much about Chavez except that he opposes Bush, so does Cindy, and some would say the enemy of my enemy etcetera. |
I think you know next to nothing about Chavez, then.
But I agree with you that she was coordinating her actions with those who wished to generally discredit the administration and the American govt. You still fail to explain what her meetings with Chavez had to do with protesting her son's death. Who conceived of the meeting? Who arranged and executed it? Do you know?
I can easily explain an American head-of-state's business-like meeting the Venezuelan head-of-state with whom we maintain diplomatic and trade relations: normal.
One could also turn the question around: what was Chavez doing being seen and shaking hands with the Devil's father...? Is his dramatic pretentions to opposition and antiAmericanism just show-politics, then...? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
[Everyone just walks out and comes home, lets the Middle East deal with their social psychoses any way they can. Let them keep their oil, we'll grow a million truckloads of corn, drive hybrids and let them find their own way to hell while we find ours, but in the meantime we're not killing them and they are not killing us.
It. |
Seems to me Mr. Bobster, that your country tried that in Afghanistan with the result that 3000 or so Americans died when some crazies crashed airlines into a couple of towers....
After the Soviet Union pulled out, so did America for the most part which is why the Taliban came to power. They harbored terrorists who eventually struck at America. Pulling out of Iraq now would create the same thing. A failed state with terrorists who already hate America. Saying well we shouldn't have, achieves no purpose. There are now a large number of terrorists who hate America and Americans and who with control of a state and oil will be able to fund attacks against America.
Even if the Iraqi government manages to stay in power at best it will be like Pakistan where large parts of the country are not under goverment control or only nominally which is why the Taliban have been able to stage a comeback.
Neither is acceptable. America is not the only target on the terrorists list.
As for your question, I would rather a family member NOT die at all. But if he or she or I had to die, I would rather we do so fighting the terrorists and making life safer for those of us back home, than say in a nuclear bomb detonated in a city about 10-20 years later. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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As for Cindy Sheehan someone who puts up fake crosses and lies about what the director of the funeral home said, deserves no respect. She got 350,000 tax free dollars (surely a bit of that could be used for the tombstone). Instead she spent it flying around the world and setting up meetings with dictators.
There are other families who have lost sons, and handled it with more dignity and grace. Cindy's own son would be turning over in his grave at her actions could he. Apparently he believed in the war so strongly he volunteered for RE-enlistment. Doesn't sound that he would have appreciated or wanted her to do what she did.
Fortunately the TV cameras have finally gotten their fill and she is now forced to stop posturing and get on with her life.
Cindy your 15 minutes of fame were a pretty long 15 minutes but now they are over. Goodbye.
Last edited by The_Conservative on Wed May 30, 2007 5:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobster: it is a bad thing to take your views and claim they represent Truth and the universal good. That is what your hated archenemy does, remember? |
Gopher, you've misunderstood me. I don't hate you, and I don't see you as an enemy, not at all. Sometimes you are wrong about some things, sure, but don't let it get you down like this ... really.
Chavez opposes the current American administration. So do I. So does Cindy. Doesn't mean that the three of us hate America. I think you know that. Though, buddha knows, I've certainly been accused of that often enough - the hawaii-five-oh dude over there even suggested a little while ago that I don't love or respect the people who put on uniforms so their lives can be spent in the service of lies ... that's the risk you take if you speak up against the bogusness perpetuated by the current bunch of clowns in Washington.
"No more needless gravestones. No more wasted lives." Not one more. Not even one, gopher. End this thing. End it now. There's no reason to continue it even one more day. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Cindy's own son would be turning over in his grave at her actions could he. Apparently he believed in the war so strongly he volunteered for RE-enlistment. |
He's dead because his govt lied to him. That is a very sad thing. We ALL need to be sad that we allowed that to happen. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
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| Cindy's own son would be turning over in his grave at her actions could he. Apparently he believed in the war so strongly he volunteered for RE-enlistment. |
He's dead because his govt lied to him. That is a very sad thing. We ALL need to be sad that we allowed that to happen. |
Nope he's dead because he believed in freedom and wasn't willing to run the risk that one day his homeland would experience another 9/11 this time by terrorists funded by Saddam (who had a history of such).
And he was protecting both those (like myself) who weren't willing to run such a risk and those (like yourself) who were/are.
Tell me something. If America does pull out and it is hit later with a terrorist attack orginating from Iraq...what ought we to do?
Imagine you are the President...what would YOU do? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
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| Cindy's own son would be turning over in his grave at her actions could he. Apparently he believed in the war so strongly he volunteered for RE-enlistment. |
He's dead because his govt lied to him. That is a very sad thing. We ALL need to be sad that we allowed that to happen. |
Nope he's dead because he believed in freedom and wasn't willing to run the risk that one day his homeland would experience another 9/11 this time by terrorists funded by Saddam (who had a history of such). |
Your govt lied to you, too. You don't have to continue to believe the lies. It's your choice. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Cindy's own son would be turning over in his grave at her actions could he. Apparently he believed in the war so strongly he volunteered for RE-enlistment. |
He's dead because his govt lied to him. That is a very sad thing. We ALL need to be sad that we allowed that to happen. |
Nope he's dead because he believed in freedom and wasn't willing to run the risk that one day his homeland would experience another 9/11 this time by terrorists funded by Saddam (who had a history of such). |
Your govt lied to you, too. You don't have to continue to believe the lies. It's your choice. |
I answered your question, now it's your turn. If a terrorist attack did occur in America in the near future as a result of pulling out of Iraq before it is stable are you willing to bear ANY blame at all for espousing the pullout?
Because according to you people who support the war bear the blame for the deaths that are occuring, so I'm wondering if the same logic applies for those on the other side.
And like another poster said a while back. "You broke it, you bought it." |
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